The NON technical threadFor the technical version click here;
*****Plastic versus braided pipe********Ok, anyone running or talking about a Wizards of NOS kit is going to end up having this conversation eventually, usually with some "expert" down the pub who knew someone who once had nitrous / used to have nitrous but doesn't any more / read something once / heard something about it once / thinks they know everything.
(Knowing how little you know is proof of intelligence, thinking you know everything just shows how stupid you are)
First things first.When you talk about nitrous the rule is "the SMALLER the better", its one of the few times this is true, usually it’s only said by people with small tackle
If you run a nitrous system rated at 600hp but only have 100hp jets then we will laugh at you. If you didn't know any better and are simply a victim of the "generic American nitrous companies" marketing then it isn't your fault and we understand, hopefully we'll be able to help you understand how nitrous really behaves, not how people think it works.
In the meantime,
If you only need less than about 90hp use the Wizards 4mm
BLACK high pressure pipe.
If you need between 90hp and 150hp then use the Wizards 5mm
BLUE high pressure pipe.
If you want more than 150hp then ask the Wizards for suitable braided pipe because they also do smaller than the usual braided pipe just for this job.
If you want 2000hp then they do pipe for that too !
If you've seen sense then ask for a
"plastic pipe conversion" to make your generic American system better and quicker performing below 150hp
Think carefully before going to braided pipe on the road, it isn't nice and you'll pay for it with a lack of performance every time you use it.
Using small pipe doesn't mean you have a small Willy !
If you think you know better and think the theoretical size of your system is directly related to your performance and are willing to argue the fact on an open board then be my guest.
You will be shot down in flames.
You will be made to look stupid.
We won't spare a single thought for your feelings.
We will rip you apart just for the fun of it.
Well, now we've got that out of the way, onto the arguments !
Wizards use cheap plastic pipe, not "proper" braided pipe :roll: This is a perfect example of "a little knowledge being a dangerous thing"
The benefits of "plastic" pipe or to a little more accurate "constant bore" over fancy steel braided pipe are numerous and can be extremely technical, I go into them in a lot more detail on this thread;
*****Insert link here******But for the benefit of being non technical and keeping it pub friendly;
*Plastic pipe can be made much smaller which makes the system faster.Braided pipe is restricted by the end fittings, this means using actual pipe that's too big and having a delay every time you use it, it also makes the system less efficient, it’s like watering down your nitrous.
*Plastic pipe keeps nitrous cooler. If you remember the phrase "cold nitrous is fast nitrous" when fitting a system you'll do a good job. That steel braiding DOESN'T keep it cool !
Exactly what did you think was inside that braided covering ?
Its called PTFE pipe, its so weak that without the steel covering it doesn't even have a pressure rating, because of the steel the actual inner pipe can be made very thin walled which makes it worse at insulating it from heat, the steel actually helps conduct heat to it and makes things even worse. Hot nitrous is slow nitrous.
*Plastic pipe doesn't expand. This is mainly a benefit to pulsed progressive systems, it doesn't weaken the shockwave that helps keep your bottle pressure more constant.
Steel braided expands a LOT compared to plastic, blame brake pipe people for making you think it doesn't expand, the only pipe it doesn't expand when compared to is RUBBER pipe !
*Plastic pipe is smaller.When you've run a few braided pipes through modern cars you'll be thankful of this !
*Plastic pipe is plastic.Sounds daft but when you've had to keep steel braided pipe away from any wiring in a modern car so it doesn't rub through the insulation or you've seen it short out and cause a fire it'll make more sense.
*Plastic pipe can easily be cut to exact lengthThis keeps performance up and reduces the initial lag when activating a system, being able to cut it yourself using only a sharp knife means no more trying to "lose" a couple of feet in an inner wing.
(see next point)
*Plastic pipe ends can be changed easily.If you've ever had a braided pipe leak or damaged it a bit by accident you'll find out you have to change the whole thing. What a pain in the ass !
with plastic you cut the end off, fit a new olive and refit it, job done in 32 seconds
(see "How to: Make or repair braided pipes")
http://www.noswizard.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=26*Plastic pipe is tougher.People seem to think steel braided pipe is indestructible, well it isn't.
It’s easier to kink, easier to crush, easier to twist, it doesn't like movement, and it’s easier to wear through. It just LOOKS tougher.
*Plastic pipe is actually more expensive.The "cheap" plastic pipe being referred to is standard Nylon 11 or 12 industrial pneumatics pipe, it costs about 53p a meter and can barely take half of the pressure our systems run at.
Wizards pipe is custom made for this job by a specialist nylon pipe manufacturer and is made to Wizards specifications. Having this done has cost them a bloody fortune, just because they wanted to use a "constant bore" pipe and give YOU and I the best pipe for the job.
Give them some credit and have some respect !
By the way, it's the cheap stuff (well a very close relative) that’s stopping the truck in your mirrors, not braided steel "pretty" pipe.
The springy coils between the power unit and trailer are cheap nylon pipe,
emergency is
red, service is
yellow and auxiliary is
blue.
Plastic pipe bursts, cracks or splitsYou'll hear this from idiots, people selling braided and American nitrous companies (no offence intended guys)
Firstly the Americans;They've started using some nylon pipe for their systems, and their using low pressure pipe to join the solenoid to the injectors (foggers) BUT they fit their jets in the injectors (Because they think they know better) and this means the pressure in the pipe is a lot higher than the pressure in our solenoid to injector pipes so theirs burst.
Cheap pipe + wrong application = Stupid (or just plain ignorant)
They've also started using plastic pipe for the main pressure pipe which is a start, it’s a shame their using the wrong type.
(It’s barely any better than braided pipe, but its cheap, does the job and is commercially available.
Guess which company puts customers first ? )
Now the idiots / people selling braided pipe;Of course their going to knock the opposition ! They won't invest a ton of money in buying miles of pipe just so they can have it specially made and have to fight popular opinion to justify it like the Wizards do !
Why the hell would they ? Braided sells itself just by sitting there looking pretty.
*CracksI haven't seen any in 14 years of using the stuff, maybe they were using cheap pipe ?
*SplitsNope, I've not seen these either
*BurstsThe only time this pipe bursts is when it’s damaged;
Kinked when installed.
Scratched badly when installed.
Cut by being next to a sharp edge.
Locally overheated.
So if someone’s had problems what are they most likely because of ?
Dodgy installation !All the things that damage plastic pipe damage braided pipe too, I’ve seen loads of faulty braided pipes and I change industrial braided pipes on a daily basis, does this mean braided is crap ?
No because it looks pretty.
There was a time when people had problems using the 4mm black pipe, somehow a batch was made very slightly too small and the olives wouldn't grip it properly, if you cut a few inches off it was usually ok.
These few miles of pipe got chucked in the bin and anyone who ended up with some will have complained and had it changed by now if they had any sense, it was several years ago now unlike the dodgy batch of braided pipe I got from another supplier last month, these things happen.
People having problems with 4mm now aren't doing it up right, because its smaller its very susceptible to being under tightened, I’ve never had a problem and at the moment I’ve got one that’s been under pressure for a year with no problems and is still on its original olives.
Ok, I think it’s finished now.
I suppose I’d better write the pages I’ve linked to at some point !
As usual, I'm not above criticism so if you have any comments then look for the button "post reply"
I've never minded
constructive criticism