NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Hi, I've just joined the forum
Hi Will and welcome to my forum.

after deciding to put togeather a dry nitrous setup for my 5.3 LS motor. I've just picked up a edelbrock super Victor carb style efi intake and at first was looking at going direct port.
But I've now discovered the WON spider plate and trapdoor system, I prefer this design over the DP but I'm unsure on which spider to go for. I've got a couple of questions
Direct port (DP) is a far more complex arrangement than our Scorpion, Spider or even our Pro Stud systems, plus the DP options deliver inferior results, so you are certainly right to be looking at these alternatives.

Is there any pictures about of the dry, nitrous only spider plate?
The Trapdoor Spider is only available as a dry system, so the pictures on that page are exactly what you are wanting and the only difference between a wet and a dry Spider plate, is that the dry plate has 8 fewer legs. However, if you'd still like to see a picture of a dry version, please see below;




What is the approx diameter of the centre of the spider? The part that the discharge pipe attach too.
It's approx 30mm but why do you ask? If you're concerned that it will have some kind of adverse effect on the NA performance, I can assure you that the reverse is actually the case, as independent dyno testing has proven that fitting a Spider increases the NA power by as much as 10 HP.

How deep into the intake does the plate spider sit?
The drop is approx. 60mm and the legs are intended to sit as near to central to the port height as possible.

Thanks
Will

Welcome to the forum!


The killer scorpion plate is what you're looking for rather than the spider. The spider is primarily aimed for wet nitrous applications. The scorpion's discharge tubes reach farther into the intake runners for optimum distribution or both nitrous and airflow.

SCORPION LINK

I've attached a pic, not the best but hopefully you can see what I mean about how the runner walls continue into the opening. I know the scorpion is the best but I think the spider will work well, even it's short tubes will reach into its designated port.

You'll soon find out that we strive for using the ABSOLUTE BEST setups possible for any given application.

I came across the scorpion plate before the spider, I really did like the look of it but I noticed it was only for 4500 fitment and my intakes 4150.

Looking back into it, I could use one but I would have run a 4150 to 4500 adaptor and a 4500 throttle body. It would cost me around £350 more than using a spider and a 4150 TB, plus the minimum 4500 bodies flow is 1600cfm. I feel that it might be a little excessive for a cam only 5.3 with around a 250hp shot of nitrous. I don't know though, I'd appreciate people's opinions.

Thanks for the picture, it's just what I was after. What I was looking for was whether the dry Spider plate still had the fuel channels which cross the opening of the plate to the centre of the spider. I can see that they're still there.
The fuel conduits (channels) also act as supports for the central drop tube, so we leave them in place, plus we'd have to blank off a bunch of ports if we removed them, so that we'd be more trouble and expense than putting them in.

Regarding me asking the size of the spider centre, it's just to see whether it'll fit my intake, going by your dimensions I think it will. I don't know whether you've seen an LS1 Super Victor intake, the walls of the intake runners protrude into the carb/throttle body opening so it is actually quite tight for space in there. I'll try and post a picture up so you get the idea.
Yes I'm very familiar with that manifold and I used one of the smallest versions for dimensions, when I first designed the Spider. Since then we've sold most of our 4150 Spiders to customers with Victor intake manifolds, so you can be sure it will fit.

My intakes about 95mm deep where the spider would sit. A spacer should get the legs sitting central to the port.
The legs can be contoured up or down to get the desired position but as long as the legs don't fire the nitrous along the top or the bottom of the runners, you'll get the majority of the benefits it offers.
For your further information, I have opinions from US nitrous experts that think I've got the position wrong, as some of them claim it would be better if they fired along the top and others believe the bottom would be better.
My choice is based on some SOLID LAWS OF PHYSICS (called the Bernoulli principle) which are PROVEN FACTS, so I would be very surprised if I'm wrong but only time will tell whether that will be the case or not. So far nobody has had the opportunity to carry out back to back FAIR testing on a specific vehicle to prove one position works better than any other and even if they had, that couldn't be taken as solid proof, because one position may work better on some manifolds and not others and that's possible even if my location initially proves to be correct.
Whatever the case, for the amount of power you are intending to add, the exact position shouldn't be too critical, so you don't have to concern yourself too much about that.
Finally on this matter, wherever you positioned the legs (even if they hit the dividers between the runners), the results would STILL BE BETTER than if you used ANY other injection arrangement - FACT!!!

I'm going to have to have a good think, though I'm swaying towards the spider plate over the scorpion or trap door atm.
You'll find the Spider plate easier to instal and it should produce results as good as our other options (for this level of power), so that would be my recommendation.

Thanks for your help so far
My pleasure.

Yes, that does make sense. Im gonna go with one of the spiders.
I should have also mentioned that when I say HUGE, I mean HUGE, as the Killer Scorpion is the highest flowing plate ever created and is capable of in excess of 1,500 HP.
NO other SINGLE PORT plate can flow even 1/4 of that amount and even the highest flowing multi-stage plate still can't even manage HALF that amount. Furthermore, even when flowing small amounts they cause TERRIBLE distribution and that gets worse the more they flow. In contrast, ALL WON plates deliver PERFECT distribution at all power levels.

You'll get a better idea of the problems that other plates cause by reading this thread;

http://forum.nitrous-advice.org/viewtop ... ilit=plate


Could I have a bit more info on how the Trap door mounts? Do you just have to tap a taper thread in the base of the plenum?
Yes but you need a good bit of space underneath the manifold to be able to connect the feed pipes to the T entry.

I was also wondering what is the diameter of the stainless pipe that feeds/supports the trapdoor spider.
We've supplied them with both 6 & 8mm feed/support tubes and for your application 6mm would be plenty.