NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Hi Hadi,

Sorry to hear you've had a problem but pleased to hear that you've spotted it and it hasn't caused any major problems.

To everyone who reads this, it is always wise to check ALL the plugs after you make ANY changes, that could potentially change the mixture ratio, just to be sure it's still correct prior to any sustained use.

With regards to jets flowing different amounts, I'll share a bit of information on the subject before dealing with the likely cause;
1) Most people think that as long as a hole through a jet is the same as another, that they will flow the same
2) The truth is that the bore size is NOT the only factor that determines how much a jet will flow
3) The length of the bore AND the entry and exit angles all influence how much a jet (or any other component) will flow
4) When maching such a small component it is inevitable that a drill will break sooner or later and that may not be picked up on the jet that it broke in.
5) Even a small burr on such a small drilling can have a relatively large effect on the flow
6) We make the jets in relatively small batches, which means the machines have to be set up for each batch, which means there may be a slight difference from one batch to another.
7) Occasionally a customer will return a jet saying that he hasn't used it and would like to exchange it. If we can see that it hasn't been used (no damage to the driver slot etc.), we'll accept it back
8) In most of our systems only one of each jet size is used, so it's not usually critical that the jets sizes are 'exactly' the same

With all the above in mind it is possible that one of the 2 jets has;
1) A smaller bore
2) A shorter bore
3) Slightly different entry or exit angles
4) Been slightly damaged when a drill has broken or a blunt drill has caused a burr
5) Is from a different batch

The simplest solution is for us to send you 2 more jets (we can flow test/match them if you want but we'd have to charge for the time), that are unlikely to have the same issues.

Thanks for the quick reply Trev

With the above info, is it possible for the nitrous jets to have the same issue?

If so then I also dont mind having the nitrous jets flow tested as well

2x150 jets
2x180 jets
2x80 jets

I dont mind the charge at this point with that power level both banks need to be in sync on nitrous.

Yes it is remotely possible although unlikely Hadi but it's always worth flow testing before making some big power numbers.

Please drop me a brief email as a reminder and I'll get them tested for you ASAP.

I work in a factory producing automotive valve seats, valve guides and turbo bearings out of sintered metal...

we supply most of the big names in the automotive trade, for example i was grinding the side face on some valve seats for Porsche just this morning.

The size we work to is obviously in microns... I know from experience that no 2 valve seats are 100% the carbon copy of another, theres a tolerance we work to and it can be as much as plus or minus 100 microns... and ive checked a lot of valve seats in my time...

I once read an interesting article about Nascar racing, I have no interest in Nascars but find everything about engines and racing interesting... any way...

before a race meeting, they would test on the dyno 4 identically prepared engines... and select the 2 most powerful engines for the race weekend ....

All very true, which is why I'm particularly proud of the fact, that an extremely high percentage of our components, DO supply IDENTICAL flow figures.

Update
I went back and swapped the 80 jets to see if the flow amounts would switch sides but the passenger bank pulsoid still flows 20 ml more.

I then flow tested most of the jets that i have between 50 and 180 and all of them flowed more on the passenger side any where between 10 to 40 ml more on the pass. side depending on jet size.

With the jets being ruled out (noway all of them have unequal flow). I started looking at the wiring for the benefit of the dought, swapped the pulsoid relays, pulsoid connections between banks flow tested again and pass side is still flowing more. I checked all the connections to the max extreme and every thing looks good. Checked voltage upon activation with the car on, it stays nice and steady at 13.8V

At a loss here, I decided to bypass the max extreme. (Fixed hit)

I flow tested ALL the jets again. Low and behold both banks pulsoids are flowing EQUAL amounts.
Changed spark plugs with a fresh back up set. Put the 50 shot jets and did the static test successfully. Checked spark plugs all even colors across 12. Road tested with no issues. Came back and installed the 100 shot jets went out for aroad test. Do I dare to say the 100 shot felt like 150 with the controller. Checked plugs again and all are even. I didnt try the 150 shot fixed hit cus I know that the clutch will slip in 1st gear
All the above work took about 9 hours straight. Wife is not happy to say the least LOL

I need advice. Is the max extreme at fault here? Could it be that the controller is not evenly pulsing both sets of pulsoids?

Another issue I have here is that I have a car meet/race this weekend set up with high HP contenders and need 150+ hp worth of nitrous
Do I back out and embarrass myself?
Do I re-configure the system into a 2 stage system 90 shot. Turn on the 1st stage in 1st gear and bring in the second stage from 2nd gear on?
Anything else I need to test that I may have left out?

Hmmm... this IS puzzling now. Other than the seat heights and the plumbing, perhaps there is a difference in wire conductor resistance between the passenger side and driver side Pulsoids. Try checking both the positive wiring (all the way to the battery; battery disconnected of course) and the ground wiring (up to the Maxy splice) of each Pulsoid and make sure that the resistance is similar. Perhaps one Pulsoid is recieving SLIGHTLY more current than the other resulting in a faster pulse response than the other.

I'm running out of ideas, but I'll keep thinking.

Wiring already checked and covered in one of my previous replies. Tuesday's update post.
Basically I swapped pulsoid relays between banks and swapped pulsoid connections between banks but flow amounts were still bigger on the pass. Side
I ran out of ideas as well.
Any procedures available to test the max unit itself?

Cheers

Here is the Pulsoid optimization manual. Perhaps it may just need a little bit of tweaking in order to get the passenger side to flow the same as the driver's when pulsed:

http://www.noswizard.com/pdf/PULSOID%20OPTIMISATION2.pdf

although I've read that document a few times, I really feel it's too risky to try doing that myself and unknowingly cause damage to the pulsoid and take my engine out with it. But here's a section that got me thinking a little bit

The lower the frequency used the more definite the Pulsoid response will be and the wider the range the Pulsoid will work over, but the higher the frequency used, the more even the delivery of fuel/nitrous and the smoother the power delivery will be, so it’s a matter of determining the highest frequency that suits your particular requirements and that delivers reliable and consistent results.

The Max's default setting is 20 Hz. The pulse range that I need starts at 60% and ramps to 100% for 1.8 secs (That was the ramp time that I needed to avoid clutch slippage in 1st gear only on the 180 shot) In all other gears I'm only using .5 build times.

With that in mind, I wonder if I change the max setting to 35 Hz and see if that results in more even delivery.

What do you guys think? I can try that later today and report back.

I just recently did the same thing and increased the frequency of the Pulsoids in the Maxy to 35 Hz and it is for sure smoother during road tests and audibly noticeable during operational tests. It's worth a try.

Sorry I've missed this thread until now Hadi.

Can you provide the following info;

1) When you did the flow test WITH the Max Extreme in control, did you do so with the settings you mention above, that is to say, were you pulsing the system?

2) If so can you connect it all back up and set ALL the power settings to 100% and retest the flow.

3) When you mention relays, can you tell me how you have them wired in to the system, please?

4) The frequency you selected should NOT affect the flow, especially from one pair of Pulsoids compared to another.

5) I VERY much doubt the Max is the cause of the problem.

6) Can you tell me how you have the Pulsoids connected to the Max?

7) Can you tell me how you have the grounds connected to the Max?

8) Can you tell me what version of the Max you have, this info is shown on the screen when first switched on?

Hopefully I'll be able to work out what is causing the issue from the answers you give.

With regards to how to proceed in the absence of a solution, as long as you aren't running overly lean on the bank that is getting least fuel, there is little to no risk of continuing to use the system as it is, at least until we find the cause.

Any news about this unbalanced flow?

Sorry no update yet.
Last week on Thursday as I was getting ready to take the car out for a cruise. I got a rough idle upon startup. I spent the whole weekend diagnosing the issue. Turned out to be a loose wire at the AMP connector to the driver's side phase sensor. Took me a total of 26 hours to track. Got it running late last evening.

I will get back to the flow issue tomorrow with answers to Trev's questions.

Sorry for the delay guys. Owning one of these cars is a love hate relationship. Currently it is hate but the love is coming back slowly lol.

I'll answer what I know so far

I also forgot to mention when I tested with everything is set to 100%, upon activating the system I can hear the pulsoids pulsing for about a half a second rather than directly click open like a fixed hit. Is this normal?

No with everything set 'correctly' the Pulsoids can be made to open instantly rather than pulse even briefly. If you send me an email I'll send you an Excel spreadsheet, that we use to diagnose max set up issues, which will hopefully lead us to finding the cause of that.

Getting closer to the problem... I'm totally in for the solution here.

Trev,

Email sent