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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:45 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:00 pm 
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Now we're cooking with SPAAAAARK!!! :twisted:


I'll be PISSED if this doesn't cure my issues! Just sayin'...

So far, I'm the only one to achieve this so hopefully the results reflect awesome gains as I should NO LONGER be leaving power on the table or misfiring.

HUGE shout-out to Steve @ Magnecore for making me these and he is a cool customer to deal with. FYI Magnecore custom jobs are not charged labor-wise, only by the wire materials themselves... PRIMO! :yes:

And the quality: EXCELLENT!

Testing begins tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:17 am 
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I did some more research about ignition systems and I suspect that these more powerful coils will need more charge (dwell time) to reach their max capacity in order to fire a good spark. With the an inadequate dwell time, the coil won't charge fast enough to fire a good spark. This problem is exaggerated at higher rpm and it is apparent on boost only (I just went for a spin). Since I'm losing power/misfiring at a lower rpm and load, I can only strongly suspect that these coils need more time to charge up.


Last edited by Turbobox on Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:56 am 
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http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm

Here's a link to good info on setting up LS coils for those wishing to perform this mod. It's definitely the go to if you're ignition is not up to par.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:30 pm 
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I haven't got time to read the link unfortunately but one thing I wondered but thought you must have already determined, was whether the coils would 'match up' to the rest of the ignition system, because contrary to what most people think, you can't just mix and match ignition components.

I've lost track of the number of times, I've seen people replace a single OEM coil with some aftermarket item and then wonder why they've burned out either the coil or the igniter box or at best end up with a weaker spark.

Hopefully you'll be able to do whatever is needed to get the best from this combo as it should be MUCH better if you can.

Best of luck

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:36 pm 
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There is no other option readily available. I have to work with what's given and I can have the charge times remapped so that the coils charge correctly. I've been on this for months on end.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:32 pm 
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One thing is for certain; you DESERVE to succeed so hopefully you will!!!! :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:13 pm 
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I'm starting to doubt that it's ignition now.

The new coil setup is AWESOME and picks up slightly MORE power overall, no mind games either I KNOW the difference lol.

Anyway, it STILL breaks up at teh SAME RPM as the stock coil, ehich leads me to believe that there is some other limitation. Mind you that this engine has been checked and re-checked for low compression, excessive leakdown, etc. and the engien is in a word: PERFECT (at least to the factory specs).

Now I'm starting to lean towards a lifting head, but no water consumption nor oil contamination; OR valve float.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:15 pm 
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Oh and I switched to nylon pipe for my nitrous feed. Day and night difference.

I was getting way too much nitrous gas for the nitrous flow I was using and it made sense to reduce the bore size. I needed consistent nitrous flow to track down this problem.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:35 pm 
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Wise move on the pipe, such a shame that so many people lose out on what nitrous can really do on small doses, because they use JUNK braided hose!!!!

It's a bitch that the coil mod hasn't sorted the problem but you could be on the right track, as I had a problem with heads lifting (due to bolts stretching), just enough to leak compression but not oil or water or blow the gasket on one of my Buick V8 builds. Unfortunately I can't remember the main symptoms other than not making enough power and I had a similar issue with a customers car, which proved to be inadequate metal between cylinders 2 & 3, resulting in compression leaking backwards and forwards between them, which resulted in a zero power gain.

Sorry I can't be any more help but diagnosing such unusual problems at such a distance is next to impossible. Luckily for you I did the most important thing to help you many years ago, which was to create a RELIABLE nitrous system, that you can be confident is not malfunctioning, so you don't have to chase your tail thinking that is the cause of the problem, like people using US JUNK do. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:13 pm 
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LOL, no doubt that your designs have proven superior again and again because you know that I would've most likely popped something a long time ago LOL.

It certainly is a strange problem and the possibility of the weak valve springs is still on the table because it seems to fault CONSISTENTLY at a particular RPM and the turbo continues to INCREASE BOOST instead of LOSING it so the energy MUST be escaping from somewhere. And once the trouble starts and the boost continues to climb, other cylinders begin to misfire as well contributing to the endless cycle. I've put 70 hp worth of gas and made 27 psi boost successfully at midrange and made GOBS of power until the same break up point. If I had been lifting the head, I think the trouble would start MUCH sooner than the consistent 5k.

Also to point out, I'm not the only one with a similar issue as there have been reports with guys on larger turbos and big boost losing power/misfiring.

The tuner is going to lower the boost past past 5k to see if the problem alleviates and if I still get the SAME limit on 25 bhp worth of gas, then the next logical step is the valve springs (which are unavailable for this engine).

Either way, I'm going to hold off from going any further after this point and simply shoot the 70 bhp worth of gas and stick below 5k. It'll still haul freakin' ass, I just have to shift earlier. It's the 250cc bike all over again, Trev. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:52 pm 
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So these are available... http://www.vermonttuning.com/product/up ... ve-springs

Apparently valve springs are a weak point according to my brief research.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:28 pm 
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This is the 300 hp Sonic, suffers the same problem. Other claims have been reported for the same issue.

At this point, I'm not going to change the valve springs. Instead, I'm going to increase the nitrous power and keep the boost low. I wanted to mimic what the typical customer would be running but I can only demo the power they could have without worrying about valve springs LOL! If they have better springs, then they'd be in a better position.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:42 am 
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Interesting situation and wise move.

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:32 pm 
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Fair play to you for getting to the bottom of the problem :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:51 pm 
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Only after spending way too much time and money LOL. At least my ignition upgrade was worth while. I feel the extra power that was being lost in the midrange. The top rpm range doesn't matter much since the valves dance all over the place. Stringer on the nitrous hit too and that's with a progressive start of 50% on 25bhp.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:01 am 
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I'm going back for the quest for power with 70 bhp. It requires a huge reduction in start power on the Maxy or else I'd blow the tires away regardless of the RPM at anywhere near 100%. Apparently, the ECU may make it a short adventure because my tuner can only raise the allowable torque limit by so much, too much time over the limit and the boost & timing will drop like rocks: limp mode. Hopefully, I can get the Maxy to only go beyond those points just before the shift and avoid limp mode.

I hope the N/A version of this car isn't a total PITA like this one is. Short of a standalone ECU, there is only so much that can be done.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:05 am 
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Turbobox wrote:
I'm going back for the quest for power with 70 bhp.


I'll get the pop corn :D

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:16 pm 
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Getting closer...

(Boost request means the boost requested by the ECU no nitrous)
Misfire line is the green one on the top section. Any number > 0 = Misfired Cyl

Misfire 25 bhp hit 100% start power - 21 psi boost request
Cyl #4 [Top Right Parameter] was the worst offender during the event and was clear cut to see on the chart.

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No misfire 50 hit 40% start power 2.5 build - 15 psi boost request. Rich as F

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:28 pm 
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So the cause of the problem is a torque limiter in the ECU????

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:36 pm 
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Noswizard wrote:
So the cause of the problem is a torque limiter in the ECU????



No, I was just showing that we reduced the requested boost to 15 psi on the bottom data log to show that it didn't misfire there. Yet the boost would still increase on the gas.

The car still has some work to do as 70 hp didn't work out so well. But I'll get there... I can taste it! At least I have to soon as there are some customers looking to by a system in the coming year and I want to have the good results for them :yes:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:57 pm 
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I also have some of the NA cars looking to get the gas, since aftermarket turbo kits don't exist. :yes:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:11 am 
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The 70 hp worth of gas caused more problems with valve float so I'm strongly convinced that the exhaust gas back-pressure builds up so quickly with that amount of the lovely nectar and boost pressure. Since the boost increases so much with the gas: the valves float.

Going to tone it back down to 50 and living with it, no sense in wasting the gas.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:30 pm 
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Gonna beat this bastard once and for all... the valve springs were spongy for any sort of performance purpose. I now have the stiffer ones installed, except I'm awaiting the timing tool kit to finish it up to see if this fixes the problems for good.


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