NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Great video... and glad you got to the bottom of your misfire problem

EXCELLENT news, so was it just inadequate spark strength????

I haven't tested it out on the nitrous JUST yet. I'm actually getting ready to test it in about an hour.

BTW inadequate spark strength is one of the main reasons I REFUSE to supply anyone with 25 HP jets initially.

MANY years ago I discovered the hard way how an inadequate spark can make a nitrous system APPEAR to be ineffectual/faulty.

A guy wanted 200 HP on his Drag car, so I fitted the system and the jets but it wouldn't produce ANY increase in power. After weeks of messing about trying to find a fault WITH THE NITROUS SYSTEM, I eventually had to remove the kit as I couldn't find a fault and couldn't find a cure, because back then I wasn't aware of the spark strength issue.

This kind of thing happened quite often and once I figured out that the ignition was the LIKELY cause (as I was still not 100% sure it of my knowledge) and suggested that to the customers, they would always say; "It can't be the ignition because it runs fine without the nitrous, so it MUST be the nitrous system at fault and you are just trying to pass the buck".

I even had an electronics and ignition expert ADAMANTLY REFUTE that my assessment of what was happening was POSSIBLE and even to date I've never had any 'ignition expert' confirm that I'm correct but I'm 100% CERTAIN of the following;

1) Adding nitrous increases the PRE-ignition cylinder pressure
2) It then requires more electrical energy for a spark to jump the same gap
3) If enough energy is not available to jump the gap AT THE CORRECT TIME due to the increased pressure, the energy is HELD in the system UNTIL the pressure drops (as it does as the piston starts to fall) and when the pressure is low enough for the spark to jump, a spark is then produced.
4) The result of this is that the timing is greatly retarded and as a consequence the power is greatly reduced
5) The reduction in power will vary from making less power than originally, to seemingly achieving no increase, through to making a smaller than expected increase, depending on how strong/weak the spark energy is.
6) Only in extreme cases with there be a misfire and as most people expect to hear misfires as an indication of an inadequate spark, they find it hard to accept an ignition is faulty without one.

Luckily I now have enough experience and command enough respect, that this kind of thing is no longer a problem and as stated in my book, an inadequate ignition strength is usually the FIRST limiting factor when adding nitrous.

By initially limiting everyone to just 25 HP, there is a much greater chance that the system will work correctly and if it then fails to make power when the jets are increased, it's pretty obvious that the system itself is not at fault and customers are more willing to accept it has to be the ignition system.

Still BUSTO on the 50 hit... I have a ramp up of 30 - 100% over 2 seconds and it definitely happens after the 2 seconds. On the ramp up, it freakin' wants to HAUL but it can't maintain the 50. I have some footage of it (but not much) to show you what I'm facing. I don't know if going any smaller on the spark gap is going to help much... it's just not making much difference.

On the plus side if I had attempted this with any other brand kit, I'd most likely be worrying about replacing engine parts than mere ignition parts.

https://youtu.be/R0VP0-YMYEo

Here's the vid showing the misfire.




Here's the overlay showing no nitrous, 25 hit, and the 50 hit (just look at the potential!):

is there any kind of ignition upgrades that fit your car ?

are you using stock plug leads? would it be worth swapping out the coil pack, just to eliminate it from your enquiries...

just a couple of suggestions, you have probably thought about all this

I think you've got 2 ignition problems;

1) The weak spark which we've been concentrating on, that can happen with even a perfect ignition system, which has been improved a little by closing the plug gap.

2) The misfires you've demonstrated in your video, which are an indication that some aspect of your ignition system is failing (insulation breakdown is the most common cause) and therefore it will need one or more parts replacing.

When you fix both issues you'll see a major improvement in all aspects of your performance.

I'm debating whether to just use an ignition amplifier because if I spend the money for a new coil that wouldn't fix the problem, then I'm back to square one where I'd need an amplifier.

I'd like to find an amplifier that's GOOD and REASONABLY priced, but I have no idea what's good and what's crap.

The old school engines seem very well catered for regarding ignition amplifiers and general up grade parts, but im not sure if anything is available for the more modern stuff, apart from better leads and plugs which is kinda making the most of what youve got...

There are amplifiers for modern coil pack ignition systems, it's just that they are SO EXPENSIVE! And I don't want to fork over big $$$ for a part that will either A) not be compatible (even though the verbage says so) or B) work well, but fail in a short amount of time (in which the warranty, if there is one, wouldn't be honored.

Well, I just went and bought a spark amplifier from Kenne Bell Superchargers. I researched many car forums to find information about spark amplifiers and the info found on Google is scarce. I was initially looking at some spark amplifiers that were CDI but I didn't want an overkill capacitor type ignition box (and they are $600 - $700+). The MSD DIS-4 box kept popping up and it would work BUT is over $700 AND I would require an EXTRA MODULE costing $60 for use with GM ignitions, which is what my car is so I was pretty pissed; it's also a convoluted installation as well.

The KB is FAR cheaper, reliable (at least that's the consensus online), and is only ONE wire splice needed as opposed to 4 or more for my coil pack. Plus, it only works when it's needed so I can have it trigger on nitrous only, boost only, or both together. And it's not the capacitor type.

Now IF it doesn't work, then I can get a NEW factory coil pack. Hopefully, this box will defeat my ignition miss with my existing coil.

Have you got a link to the amplifier you bought... just out of curiosity?

After scrounging the internet once more, I decided to take a closer look at my coil pack assembly. I didn't realize at first that the rubber boots were removable because they were stuck on and I didn't want to risk damaging the components. After removing the rubber boots, I found that the contact springs were a separate component and that the connection to the coil is merely a pressure contact made between the spark plug and the coil itself by the spring. Not only that, but the spring contact tips for the coil ends were corroded (#4 being the worst). So I cleaned them all to be like new and gapped the plugs a bit more by .002" more (although I doubt it would halp much), and hopefully it will show some improvement, until my amplifier shows up.

I also stretched the springs some in order to increase the contact pressure between the plugs and the coils.

It's good job you found those to be a problem as I was about to tell you that you'd made a bad move going for the Amp box as that would NOT cure the misfire. That corrosion will almost certainly be the cause of the misfire and it could even be the cause of the weak spark, so you may have found the cause and not require the Amp box.

will be interesting to see if your tinkering today makes any difference ...

regarding the amplifier, its the first time ive seen one of them, and I look forward to your findings... (i think you said you had ordered it already)

although i share Trevors view... i believe the amplifier will be masking the real issue.

I run Jacobs cdi (very similar to an MSD) on my Ford capri... I didnt notice any top end power improvement, but the car drove nicer at low revs, idle felt and sounded a little nicer, gas mileage improved a little around town and cruising... you can really open the plug gap with the cdi ignition boxes... The std plug gap in the workshop manual is 25 thou, with the cdi box im running 50 thou and the engine seems to love it...

The only trouble i had with the cdi ignition is the little resistor in the rotor arm would burn out after a couple of weeks, I used to carry a couple of spares in the car just in case... along with a few burnt out ones as trophys

as i mentioned in an earlier post i remedied the issue by modifying some old burnt out rotor arms with a strip of brass bridging the gap where the resistor used to be.

any way im waffling now

Brass rods would actually be better than those springs, as it will conduct better so your 'waffling' reminded me to mention that Goyle.

If you are still running the stock ignition leads I would personally swap them out for some real good after market ones...

people always concentrate on having good plugs, and generating a good spark by way of spark generators, but dont spare a thought about the energy wasted by having sub standard leads.