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 Post subject: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:26 pm 
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Hello all,

My name is Alex and I'm currently in the beginnings of installing a NOS-to-WON conversion kit to my Chevrolet Sonic 1.4L turbo. I believe the engine is of Vauxhall origin (info gathered from the ever righteous internet).

While I'm not completely new to nitrous, I am new to using nitrous CORRECTLY. I don't want past knowledge and experience, which is tainted by U.S. company and forum information, to hinder my new learning experience here in the School of NOSwarts!

So here we go!

Here is the overall location for the Pulsoids. They are away from the exhaust system and most high heat components. I had to keep in mind the location of the injector for the fluids to have the shortest routing possible and also avoid the brake fluid reservoir.

Attachment:
File comment: Overall desired Pulsoid mouting position.
IMG_1230.JPG
IMG_1230.JPG [ 344 KiB | Viewed 9970 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: General working length for the injector.
IMG_1233.JPG
IMG_1233.JPG [ 441.41 KiB | Viewed 9970 times ]


Pulsoids are mounted to a removable plate where the computer mounts to. It's replaceable from the manufacturer and easy to modify and manipulate. Remember, it is a mock-up so the computer is not secured to the plate!

Attachment:
File comment: Pulsoid mount
IMG_1231.JPG
IMG_1231.JPG [ 486.1 KiB | Viewed 9970 times ]


I'm still waiting for a fuel supply hose to draw fuel for the Pulsoid, some NGK 7 plugs (non-projected), and a retainer for the injector so I'm a bit on hold for that.

Fortunately that's the minor stuff, though I hit a bit of a snag during the mock-up. While attaching the pulsoids to the supplied mounting brackets, the top of the coil that threads into the CNC body came loose and it turned about 1/4 turn from it's factory position. I tightened it back up (by hand but good and tight) to put it back where it was but I can't be 100% certain that it's in the position that it was as delivered. I know the adjustment screw under the jet holder is calibrated, but I just want to be sure that the coil top is not of high calibration as well.

Should I return it to WON to have it inspected, torque the cap to a specific value (I have those tools and expertise), or will a good tightening be sufficient?

I did read the X-10 manual and optimization process and there was no mention of this so I thought I'd better ask. I always ask and NEVER assume.

Alex (U.S. customer)

By the way, I compared this kit to the old NOS and a Dynotune one that I have and the quality of WON is of no comparison. I made the right choice. Thanks, Trev, your battles on other forums made me take a GOOD look into your products and the TRUTH of NITROUS!


Last edited by Turbobox on Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mock-up check-up, please.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:11 pm 
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Turbobox wrote:
Hello all,

My name is Alex
Hi Alex glad to see you made it here and sorry for the late response.

While I'm not completely new to nitrous, I am new to using nitrous CORRECTLY. I don't want past knowledge and experience, which is tainted by U.S. company and forum information, to hinder my new learning experience hear in the School of NOSwarts!
Shame about the tainted experience but you can now appreciate WON even better, as most people who choose WON first don't appreciate just how lucky they are that they did. :yes:

So here we go!

Here is the overall location for the Pulsoids. They are away from the exhaust system and most high heat components. I had to keep in mind the location of the injector for the fluids to have the shortest routing possible and also avoid the brake fluid reservoir.
Looks to me like you can locate the Crossfire JUST before the TB.

Pulsoids are mounted to a removable plate where the computer mounts to. It's replaceable from the manufacturer and easy to modify and manipulate. Remember, it is a mock-up so the computer is not secured to the plate!
I'm sure that will be fine when its finalised.

I'm still waiting for a fuel supply hose to draw fuel for the Pulsoid, some NGK 7 plugs (non-projected), and a retainer for the injector so I'm a bit on hold for that.
Very sorry about the retainer, that was my fault as I don't normally have to deal with packing orders but my usual packer was off ill.

Fortunately that's the minor stuff, though I hit a bit of a snag during the mock-up. While attaching the pulsoids to the supplied mounting brackets, the top of the coil that threads into the CNC body came loose and it turned about 1/4 turn from it's factory position. I tightened it back up (by hand but good and tight) to put it back where it was but I can't be 100% certain that it's in the position that it was as delivered. I know the adjustment screw under the jet holder is calibrated, but I just want to be sure that the coil top is not of high calibration as well.

Should I return it to WON to have it inspected, torque the cap to a specific value (I have those tools and expertise), or will a good tightening be sufficient?
As long as its tight it should be fine and shouldn't affect the functionality or the setting of it.

I did read the X-10 manual and optimization process and there was no mention of this so I thought I'd better ask. I always ask and NEVER assume.
Wise man! :yes:

Alex (U.S. customer)

By the way, I compared this kit to the old NOS and a Dynotune one that I have and the quality of WON is of no comparison. I made the right choice. Thanks, Trev, your battles on other forums made me take a GOOD look into your products and the TRUTH of NITROUS!
Very pleased to hear it and thank you for such appreciative words.

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Mock-up check-up, please.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:44 pm 
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Noswizard wrote:
Turbobox wrote:
Hello all,

My name is Alex
Hi Alex glad to see you made it here and sorry for the late response.

No worries; I know you're a busy man. Especially one who's trying to run a company while responding to posts! Once again, EXCEPTIONAL SERVICE AND DEDICATION! :yes:

While I'm not completely new to nitrous, I am new to using nitrous CORRECTLY. I don't want past knowledge and experience, which is tainted by U.S. company and forum information, to hinder my new learning experience here in the School of NOSwarts!
Shame about the tainted experience but you can now appreciate WON even better, as most people who choose WON first don't appreciate just how lucky they are that they did. :yes:

Indeed. Even when I broke things, I tried to figure out why, but the information available at the time was typical nitrous B.S. :evil:

So here we go!

Here is the overall location for the Pulsoids. They are away from the exhaust system and most high heat components. I had to keep in mind the location of the injector for the fluids to have the shortest routing possible and also avoid the brake fluid reservoir.
Looks to me like you can locate the Crossfire JUST before the TB.

I just used the measurement to see mark the maximum distance I was considering the injector installation. It's good to hear that I could mount it so closely; apart from quicker response, it keeps things neater. Jets will be easily accessible in this location as well.

Pulsoids are mounted to a removable plate where the computer mounts to. It's replaceable from the manufacturer and easy to modify and manipulate. Remember, it is a mock-up so the computer is not secured to the plate!
I'm sure that will be fine when its finalised.

Both pulsoids will be angled in the same manner because I know it will eat my brain if they don't match! Could it be OCD or perfectionism? :scratch:

I'm still waiting for a fuel supply hose to draw fuel for the Pulsoid, some NGK 7 plugs (non-projected), and a retainer for the injector so I'm a bit on hold for that.
Very sorry about the retainer, that was my fault as I don't normally have to deal with packing orders but my usual packer was off ill.

It's not an issue. I'm not under any time pressure.

Fortunately that's the minor stuff, though I hit a bit of a snag during the mock-up. While attaching the pulsoids to the supplied mounting brackets, the top of the coil that threads into the CNC body came loose and it turned about 1/4 turn from it's factory position. I tightened it back up (by hand but good and tight) to put it back where it was but I can't be 100% certain that it's in the position that it was as delivered. I know the adjustment screw under the jet holder is calibrated, but I just want to be sure that the coil top is not of high calibration as well.

Should I return it to WON to have it inspected, torque the cap to a specific value (I have those tools and expertise), or will a good tightening be sufficient?
As long as its tight it should be fine and shouldn't affect the functionality or the setting of it.

Excellent! I was a bit worried about that; I didn't think it would be an issue at first, but then I thought I should find out anyway before proceeding.

I did read the X-10 manual and optimization process and there was no mention of this so I thought I'd better ask. I always ask and NEVER assume.
Wise man! :yes:

Alex (U.S. customer)

By the way, I compared this kit to the old NOS and a Dynotune one that I have and the quality of WON is of no comparison. I made the right choice. Thanks, Trev, your battles on other forums made me take a GOOD look into your products and the TRUTH of NITROUS!
Very pleased to hear it and thank you for such appreciative words.

No, THANK YOU for putting up with my infinite questions and providing so much assistance. :mrgreen: :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: Mock-up check-up, please.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:31 am 
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Turbobox wrote:
No worries; I know you're a busy man. Especially one who's trying to run a company while responding to posts! Once again, EXCEPTIONAL SERVICE AND DEDICATION! :yes:
It's always a pleasure to have my efforts appreciated.

Indeed. Even when I broke things, I tried to figure out why, but the information available at the time was typical nitrous B.S. :evil:
You'll ONLY get the true FACTS here. I won't allow any BS or untruths on my forum. Just a shame that more people don't benefit from it all. Having said that, I know from the forum view stats that a large number of American's do spend time reading my posts and I've no doubt that most of them will be using US JUNK kits, as we don't have a big market share there yet.

I just used the measurement to see mark the maximum distance I was considering the injector installation. It's good to hear that I could mount it so closely; apart from quicker response, it keeps things neater. Jets will be easily accessible in this location as well.
Easy jet access is very important as it means you're more likely to optimise the settings, than if you couldn't get at them.

Both pulsoids will be angled in the same manner because I know it will eat my brain if they don't match! Could it be OCD or perfectionism? :scratch:
Perfectionism is a cover story for OCD and I know that from personal experience. It's my own perfectionism/OCD that has lead to the PERFECT products I've designed/created but it also wastes a great deal of my time, when I can't do anything without doing it in the best possible way. :-(

No, THANK YOU for putting up with my infinite questions and providing so much assistance. :mrgreen: :thumbsup:
It's always a pleasure when its appreciated. :yes:

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30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Mock-up check-up, please.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:55 pm 
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Finally! Today is the day that I finished the WON kit install. It took almost all day to get everything they way I wanted it. The only exception is the wiring because I was exhausted from installing the plumbing and the bottle brackets (NOS bottle and brackets: they suck, but I'm not willing to spend more at this time on that). Eventually, I'll get some of those snazzy WON brackets because of the fact that they come apart and that's very convenient for me with my little car.

Anyway, I'm not TOTALLY done yet because I still have my bottle heater to do. Since it remains hot most of the time, I'll save the heater for another day.

I need to do the static test and road test still, which I'll probably do tomorrow. The system does work as I verified that the injector shoots fuel and nitrous.

I think the biggest pain was installing the injector; the rubber boost pipe was stubborn to make a clean bore, but I managed in the end. :yes:


Also, my car has a peculiar method of varying the fuel pump pressure than what I'm used to. The pump is electronically modulated to provide more or less fuel pressure based on engine condition. When I had my fuel pressure gauge hooked up: the pressure stays at 40 psig when holding the rpm steady, 36-38 psig when at lowest idle, and maintains somewhat of a 1:1 ratio of additional pressure per psig of boost (~45 psi fuel -- 5 psi boost; ~50 psi fuel -- 10 psi boost). Hence the working pressure should be around 40 psig. The pump seems to be adequate at up to power levels in excess of 230HP from what other enthusiasts have done with this car. I should be okay with my tune and 25 bhp; I'll keep a close eye on my spark plugs.


Here are some pics:

Attachment:
File comment: Arming switch.
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Dirty engine. :beatstick:

Attachment:
File comment: Overall look. I know my car needs cleaning.
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Upclose look.

Attachment:
File comment: Pulsoids and injector
IMG_1245.JPG
IMG_1245.JPG [ 403.3 KiB | Viewed 9931 times ]


This is by far THE SEXIEST looking nitrous kit I've ever owned. It's worth every penny for aesthetics alone.


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:50 am 
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Looking nice. I think WoN systems look gorgeous, specially the new bottle holders. I know if I could fit one on my wheelchair I would hahaha. I've heard a lot of bad things abut American systems

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:11 pm 
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TheBlueDragon wrote:
I've heard a lot of bad things abut American systems



Yes, they are horrid. I've owned a few systems over the years and they all have the same qualities: poor design and excellent marketing. They prey on the new users by finding newer and better ways to make their systems look good while being the same junk that's been sold for decades.

At first, I didn't believe it. I thought that the U.S. stuff was improving as time went on, but in reality, the only improvements are aesthetics and profit margins. For example, when I first heard of the "Zex box", I thought it contained some complex electronic circuitry to "monitor" nitrous and fuel pressures to maintain the optimum mixture (as per the marketing verbage). Yet, under that pretty purple cover was nothing but a few bits of cheap,brass fittings and a VERY ugly, generic solenoid. Considering that these types of solenoids require regular servicing, there is no provision in the instruction manuals to inspect the solenoid in the Zex box. So how is a customer supposed to know if the solenoid is in need of replacement? When it's too late and the engine is destroyed from a faulty solenoid? Do they really expect a customer to send in their Zex box back to head-quarters after every 20 pounds of nitrous? Those shipping costs are NOT CHEAP!

These are questions are started asking myself after researching why WON systems were so different in appearance. And after hours of reading on this forum, I realized that all of Trev's words are based on FACT rather than clever marketing. Since I do have a brain (that works!), I began thinking about each design element in WON systems and how they protect the nitrous oxide liquid from changing into a gaseous state UNTIL the point of release into the engine. I also thought deeply about the Pulsoids compared to 'other' kits' solenoids. At first, I didn't even know that Pulsoids lasted forever, yet after rebuilding generic NOS brand solenoids (at $50 to $70 each kit for both fuel AND nitrous ~ $120 average) I knew that I wanted to chuck them in the bin and obtain the Pulsoids.

Of course, since the nozzle of my kit is a design of the 1970's (NOS 13700), I thought I'd better upgrade the whole system to obtain the reliability I've desired from a nitrous system.

I think I was EXTREMELY fortunate not to damage anything with that kit over the 10 years of ownership, and that was due to constantly checking the solenoids for condition. After every few bottles, solenoid inspections tend to get VERY tedious; it made me NOT want to use nitrous knowing that I would have to check them again. NOT FUN!

I can't wait to experience nitrous-oxide again without those concerns!


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:54 pm 
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Turbobox wrote:
Yes, they are horrid. I've owned a few systems over the years and they all have the same qualities: poor design and excellent marketing. They prey on the new users by finding newer and better ways to make their systems look good while being the same junk that's been sold for decades.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT and ESPECIALLY "They PREY on new users" and it's a DESPICABLE policy.

At first, I didn't believe it. I thought that the U.S. stuff was improving as time went on, but in reality, the only improvements are aesthetics and profit margins.
Correct again as PROFIT is ALL they are concerned about and they don't give a damn about the customer. HolleyNOS refused to buy/sell my Pulsoids instead of their generic JUNK, because THEY'D LOSE SALES OF SERVICE KITS & THEY MAKE MORE PROFIT ON THOSE THAN ANYTHING ELSE!!!!!

For example, when I first heard of the "Zex box", I thought it contained some complex electronic circuitry to "monitor" nitrous and fuel pressures to maintain the optimum mixture (as per the marketing verbage). Yet, under that pretty purple cover was nothing but a few bits of cheap,brass fittings and a VERY ugly, generic solenoid. Considering that these types of solenoids require regular servicing, there is no provision in the instruction manuals to inspect the solenoid in the Zex box. So how is a customer supposed to know if the solenoid is in need of replacement? When it's too late and the engine is destroyed from a faulty solenoid? Do they really expect a customer to send in their Zex box back to head-quarters after every 20 pounds of nitrous? Those shipping costs are NOT CHEAP!
The Zex con is DISGUSTING and one of the worst out there. It's such a shame that more people are not aware of it as you now are. I actually publicised this many years ago by posting pictures of the internals on here and there are even worse aspects to it than you have covered. :evil:

These are questions are started asking myself after researching why WON systems were so different in appearance. And after hours of reading on this forum, I realized that all of Trev's words are based on FACT rather than clever marketing. Since I do have a brain (that works!), I began thinking about each design element in WON systems and how they protect the nitrous oxide liquid from changing into a gaseous state UNTIL the point of release into the engine. I also thought deeply about the Pulsoids compared to 'other' kits' solenoids. At first, I didn't even know that Pulsoids lasted forever, yet after rebuilding generic NOS brand solenoids (at $50 to $70 each kit for both fuel AND nitrous ~ $120 average) I knew that I wanted to chuck them in the bin and obtain the Pulsoids.
My first experience of using a US brand nitrous kit (NOS) nearly cost me my life, when the fuel solenoid failed to open (due to unsuitable materials being used as seals), causing a backfire which set the bike on fire. From that day to this my TOP priority has been to produce products that perform the BEST its possible to achieve, to ensure my customers don't run the life threatening risks that they do when using other products.

Of course, since the nozzle of my kit is a design of the 1970's (NOS 13700), I thought I'd better upgrade the whole system to obtain the reliability I've desired from a nitrous system.

I think I was EXTREMELY fortunate not to damage anything with that kit over the 10 years of ownership, and that was due to constantly checking the solenoids for condition. After every few bottles, solenoid inspections tend to get VERY tedious; it made me NOT want to use nitrous knowing that I would have to check them again. NOT FUN!
You were VERY LUCKY and its disgusting that people buying other brands, have to RELY ON LUCK and regular maintenance to get an acceptable result. With WON systems the reverse is the case, you'd have to be VERY UNLUCKY to experience ANY kind of failure of our components. In 35 years of this business and having sold many hundreds of thousands of products, I can't remember a single case of a customer being unlucky enough to suffer a major problem and I can probably count the minor problems on one hand.

I can't wait to experience nitrous-oxide again without those concerns![/color]
Which is how it should be. :yes:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:09 pm 
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Thank you, Trev for the positive critique!

Now down to BUSINESS!!!

In my previous post, I mentioned how the fuel pump pressure was modulated electronically causing a lower stable pressure when holding the engine at a static speed. This caused my static test (performed at 900 psig optimum pressure) to raise engine rpm to beyond my redline limits, which lead to the erroneous conclusion that the system was LEAN. Since I was confident that this lower fuel pressure was the cause of the excessive lean mixture during the static test, I continued onto the road test.

Now this was the scary part, but not because of the nitrous. I was concerned about any 'authority figures' catching me at more than friendly speeds. :salute:
I performed several brief 2nd gear runs to make sure that there were no unusual sounds from the engine, in fact the engine responded EXCELLENTLY with very noticeable increases of power and exhaust note. Needless to say, this brought back so many good memories!

After stopping to check the condition of the spark plugs (for signs of detonation or melting), I then proceeded to a 30-90 mph test, which is 2nd and 3rd gear for my car. The result were SPOT ON!

Spark plug analysis:

NOTE: Each plug looks EXACTLY the same with minor variations. The nitrous/fuel plume dispersion is the BEST I've experienced. EVEN ON SMALL SHOTS, I was able to discern lean cylinders to rich ones with my NOS and NX kits!

Overall:
Attachment:
IMG_1256.JPG
IMG_1256.JPG [ 427.87 KiB | Viewed 9916 times ]


"Fuel ring" analysis at the porcelain base (Tan color all the way around porcelain base):
Attachment:
IMG_1259.JPG
IMG_1259.JPG [ 62.63 KiB | Viewed 9916 times ]


I'm concerned with the timing mark, but that timing mark may be due to non-nitrous full power passes. I didn't make enough nitrous passes to form that mark. NOTE: ALL CHECKS PERFORMED AFTER IMMEDIATE ENGINE SHUT DOWN AFTER EACH FULL POWER PASS. This is to ensure proper plug analysis. Therefore, these plugs were pulled RIGHT AFTER a nitrous pass and replaced with a different set to drive home.
Attachment:
IMG_1257.JPG
IMG_1257.JPG [ 127.15 KiB | Viewed 9916 times ]


When the nitrous engaged, it felt extremely strong and SMOOTH. I've never felt such a 'nice' increase in power as opposed to a generic "shit kit". I am extremely happy with today's results! :yes: :cheers:

Now it looks like I'll need a clutch too. 3rd gear engagement causes it to slip! :beatstick:


Last edited by Turbobox on Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm 
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Noswizard wrote:
The Zex con is DISGUSTING and one of the worst out there. It's such a shame that more people are not aware of it as you now are. I actually publicised this many years ago by posting pictures of the internals on here and there are even worse aspects to it than you have covered. :evil:




Oh, by the way:
Attachment:
ZEX_Box1.jpg
ZEX_Box1.jpg [ 34.8 KiB | Viewed 9916 times ]

Attachment:
ZEX_Internal1.jpg
ZEX_Internal1.jpg [ 38.03 KiB | Viewed 9916 times ]

Attachment:
ZEX_Internal2.jpg
ZEX_Internal2.jpg [ 29.02 KiB | Viewed 9916 times ]


Note the TEFLON TAPE!?
Garbage, simply garbage! :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:33 pm 
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Turbobox wrote:
Thank you, Trev for the positive critique!

Now down to BUSINESS!!!

I performed several brief 2nd gear runs to make sure that there were no unusual sounds from the engine, in fact the engine responded EXCELLENTLY with very noticeable increases of power and exhaust note. Needless to say, this brought back so many good memories!

After stopping to check the condition of the spark plugs (for signs of detonation or melting), I then proceeded to a 30-90 mph test, which is 2nd and 3rd gear for my car. The result were SPOT ON!

Spark plug analysis:

NOTE: Each plug looks EXACTLY the same with minor variations. The nitrous/fuel plume dispersion is the BEST I've experienced. EVEN ON SMALL SHOTS, I was able to discern lean cylinders to rich ones with my NOS and NX kits!

EXCELLENT results, excellent report and excellent observations, if only more people were so aware of the difference between right (WON) and wrong (the REST), they could all stop suffering and enjoy nitrous instead.

Overall:
I'm concerned with the timing mark, but that timing mark may be due to non-nitrous full power passes. I didn't make enough nitrous passes to form that mark. NOTE: ALL CHECKS PERFORMED AFTER IMMEDIATE ENGINE SHUT DOWN AFTER EACH FULL POWER PASS. This is to ensure proper plug analysis. Therefore, these plugs were pulled RIGHT AFTER a nitrous pass and replaced with a different set to drive home.
Most modern engines have det sensor and self adjust the timing but if yours doesn't it would certainly help to try and retard the timing a couple of degrees, even if those results are NA. An alternative is to add a progressive controller, as adding less at low RPM and more as they ramp up, avoids the high low rpm loads that fixed hit kits cause.
Excellent plug inspection proceedure and analysis.
:yes:

When the nitrous engaged, it felt extremely strong and SMOOTH. I've never felt such a 'nice' increase in power as opposed to a generic "shit kit". I am extremely happy with today's results! :yes: :cheers:
VERY PLEASED to see you say that as most people (who haven't tried both), don't believe that there can be a difference between how a WON system 'delivers' the power relative to how other kits do.
Our UNIQUE use of nylon pipe and metering jets located at the Pulsoids create a relatively SOFT HIT that then grows with time (even on a fixed hit), whereas with ALL other kits there is either a delay if the braided hose isn't purged or there is an initial surge that then fades away if it is purged. ONLY the WON way delivers the nitrous and fuel CORRECTLY and achieves the desired effect.


Now it looks like I'll need a clutch too. 3rd gear engagement causes it to slip! :beatstick:
That's the kind of problem most customers are happy to have to deal with. ;)
BTW a progressive controller would help to alleviate that problem and we have a couple of used options available at present so that's at least 3 good reasons for going progressive and I haven't even scratched the surface of the HUGE number of benefits they offer. :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:39 pm 
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Turbobox wrote:
Noswizard wrote:
The Zex con is DISGUSTING and one of the worst out there. It's such a shame that more people are not aware of it as you now are. I actually publicised this many years ago by posting pictures of the internals on here and there are even worse aspects to it than you have covered. :evil:




Oh, by the way:

Note the TEFLON TAPE!?
Garbage, simply garbage! :evil:

Yes that's another example of their PATHETIC INCOMPETENCE and one that we categorically warn AGAINST DOING, as PTFE tape shreds when parts are screwed together and can easily block filters.

How anyone could feel that such a piece of JUNK warranted a Patent is beyond me. Personally, if I'd been despicable enough to create such a piece of garbage, I'd have welded the box up to permanently hide what was inside to avoid having to face the shame of it.

I can say with all HONESTY that I am DEEPLY PROUD OF ALL MY PRODUCTS and if I wasn't I wouldn't be selling them.

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30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:15 am 
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Noswizard wrote:
Turbobox wrote:
Thank you, Trev for the positive critique!

Now down to BUSINESS!!!

I performed several brief 2nd gear runs to make sure that there were no unusual sounds from the engine, in fact the engine responded EXCELLENTLY with very noticeable increases of power and exhaust note. Needless to say, this brought back so many good memories!

After stopping to check the condition of the spark plugs (for signs of detonation or melting), I then proceeded to a 30-90 mph test, which is 2nd and 3rd gear for my car. The result were SPOT ON!

Spark plug analysis:

NOTE: Each plug looks EXACTLY the same with minor variations. The nitrous/fuel plume dispersion is the BEST I've experienced. EVEN ON SMALL SHOTS, I was able to discern lean cylinders to rich ones with my NOS and NX kits!

EXCELLENT results, excellent report and excellent observations, if only more people were so aware of the difference between right (WON) and wrong (the REST), they could all stop suffering and enjoy nitrous instead.

Indeed.

Overall:
I'm concerned with the timing mark, but that timing mark may be due to non-nitrous full power passes. I didn't make enough nitrous passes to form that mark. NOTE: ALL CHECKS PERFORMED AFTER IMMEDIATE ENGINE SHUT DOWN AFTER EACH FULL POWER PASS. This is to ensure proper plug analysis. Therefore, these plugs were pulled RIGHT AFTER a nitrous pass and replaced with a different set to drive home.
Most modern engines have det sensor and self adjust the timing but if yours doesn't it would certainly help to try and retard the timing a couple of degrees, even if those results are NA. An alternative is to add a progressive controller, as adding less at low RPM and more as they ramp up, avoids the high low rpm loads that fixed hit kits cause.
Excellent plug inspection proceedure and analysis.
:yes:

As I've mentioned in our e-mail conversations, my car does have a performance tune for a completely stock car, which increases boost and changes timing curves to match. I suspect the timing is increased to hold power under high & hot boost pressures. However, I've scrutinized these plugs using my 10 power magnifying glass and saw no evidence of detonation. Not one single speck of metal at all! Beyond that, this engine has a high sensitivity detonation sensor as it was designed to be used with 9.5:1 compression and 87 octane. ANY sign of det and the boost will fall and timing will retard.

When the nitrous engaged, it felt extremely strong and SMOOTH. I've never felt such a 'nice' increase in power as opposed to a generic "shit kit". I am extremely happy with today's results! :yes: :cheers:
VERY PLEASED to see you say that as most people (who haven't tried both), don't believe that there can be a difference between how a WON system 'delivers' the power relative to how other kits do.
Our UNIQUE use of nylon pipe and metering jets located at the Pulsoids create a relatively SOFT HIT that then grows with time (even on a fixed hit), whereas with ALL other kits there is either a delay if the braided hose isn't purged or there is an initial surge that then fades away if it is purged. ONLY the WON way delivers the nitrous and fuel CORRECTLY and achieves the desired effect.

If I didn't try it, I WOULDN'T have believed it either. :beatstick: The nitrous delivery simply felt like more boost from the turbo.

Now it looks like I'll need a clutch too. 3rd gear engagement causes it to slip! :beatstick:
That's the kind of problem most customers are happy to have to deal with. ;)
BTW a progressive controller would help to alleviate that problem and we have a couple of used options available at present so that's at least 3 good reasons for going progressive and I haven't even scratched the surface of the HUGE number of benefits they offer. :idea:

Expect an e-mail shortly. :yes:



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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:42 am 
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Noswizard wrote:
Turbobox wrote:
Oh, by the way:

Note the TEFLON TAPE!?
Garbage, simply garbage! :evil:

Yes that's another example of their PATHETIC INCOMPETENCE and one that we categorically warn AGAINST DOING, as PTFE tape shreds when parts are screwed together and can easily block filters.

That is IF the system includes one in the first place, and even then it would be nothing more than a SCREEN rather than a filter.

How anyone could feel that such a piece of JUNK warranted a Patent is beyond me.

A scumbag would.

I can say with all HONESTY that I am DEEPLY PROUD OF ALL MY PRODUCTS and if I wasn't I wouldn't be selling them.

And that's why your products are AWESOME and continue to IMPROVE unlike other jerkoff companies. :tard:



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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:57 pm 
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Turbobox wrote:
my car does have a performance tune for a completely stock car, which increases boost and changes timing curves to match. I suspect the timing is increased to hold power under high & hot boost pressures. However, I've scrutinized these plugs using my 10 power magnifying glass and saw no evidence of detonation. Not one single speck of metal at all! Beyond that, this engine has a high sensitivity detonation sensor as it was designed to be used with 9.5:1 compression and 87 octane. ANY sign of det and the boost will fall and timing will retard.
For some reason I didn't realise your car was turbo charged until now. Being a turbo explains a great deal!!!! Unlike NA engines the timing does NOT need to be retarded when adding nitrous, as the extreme cooling effect makes the charge less prone to detonation than on boost alone, so if anything you could advance the timing.
If there were any doubt about that statement, the condition of your plugs prove it to be correct. ;)

If I didn't try it, I WOULDN'T have believed it either. :beatstick: The nitrous delivery simply felt like more boost from the turbo.
Which is how I intended it to be, as it's more USABLE that way. I remember taking a magazine journalist for a test drive one day, I activated the nitrous and these were his words; "Oh shit... OH SHIT.... OH SHITTTTT....... OH SHITTTTTTTTT.......... OH SHITTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!! as the engine just kept pulling harder and harder. :yes:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:00 am 
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Turbobox wrote:
I can say with all HONESTY that I am DEEPLY PROUD OF ALL MY PRODUCTS and if I wasn't I wouldn't be selling them.

And that's why your products are AWESOME and continue to IMPROVE unlike other jerkoff companies. :tard:

[/quote]
Thank you for that. :)

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:59 am 
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Noswizard wrote:
Turbobox wrote:
my car does have a performance tune for a completely stock car, which increases boost and changes timing curves to match. I suspect the timing is increased to hold power under high & hot boost pressures. However, I've scrutinized these plugs using my 10 power magnifying glass and saw no evidence of detonation. Not one single speck of metal at all! Beyond that, this engine has a high sensitivity detonation sensor as it was designed to be used with 9.5:1 compression and 87 octane. ANY sign of det and the boost will fall and timing will retard.

For some reason I didn't realise your car was turbo charged until now. Being a turbo explains a great deal!!!! Unlike NA engines the timing does NOT need to be retarded when adding nitrous, as the extreme cooling effect makes the charge less prone to detonation than on boost alone, so if anything you could advance the timing.
If there were any doubt about that statement, the condition of your plugs prove it to be correct. ;)


I can only suspect this is because NA engines' intake charges are more saturated with nitrous content and/or less available heat for the nitrous charge to aborb (on top of increased compression for efficiency, which also creates heat). Thus, limiting its ability to reduce the detonation threshold as opposed to the much hotter, denser cylinder charge of a boosted engine. Would it be correct to say that the hotter the environment, the greater the amount of phase change from liquid nitrous to a gaseous state, thus DECREASING the surrounding temperature to a greater extent than a cooler environment? :scratch:

so if anything you could advance the timing.

I could either add more timing OR add even more nitrous!
Unfortunately, I cannot do either for a number of reasons: 1) I do not have ANY control of the parameters in the tune because it is a locked tune that only the company that wrote it can make any changes. 2) My car is completely STOCK physically and I'm already pushing the limits greatly on the stock exhaust system. 3) I doubt my clutch could hold a 50 shot, a tune, and a free flowing exhaust system for a long period of time (I'd still try it, though). 4) The fuel pump would be unable to provide the flow required for more power (A boost-a-pump module would be required).

I want the car to remain physically stock because I commute a lot with it and occasionally kickin' some sports car ass with a STOCK appearing economy car is just a great laugh! They'll only realize what happened once they read the WON sticker on my car's backside. :twisted:


If I didn't try it, I WOULDN'T have believed it either. :beatstick: The nitrous delivery simply felt like more boost from the turbo.
Which is how I intended it to be, as it's more USABLE that way. I remember taking a magazine journalist for a test drive one day, I activated the nitrous and these were his words; "Oh shit... OH SHIT.... OH SHITTTTT....... OH SHITTTTTTTTT.......... OH SHITTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!! as the engine just kept pulling harder and harder. :yes:

:D





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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:35 pm 
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Turbobox wrote:
Noswizard wrote:
The Zex con is DISGUSTING and one of the worst out there. It's such a shame that more people are not aware of it as you now are. I actually publicised this many years ago by posting pictures of the internals on here and there are even worse aspects to it than you have covered. :evil:




Oh, by the way:
Attachment:
ZEX_Box1.jpg

Attachment:
ZEX_Internal1.jpg

Attachment:
ZEX_Internal2.jpg


Note the TEFLON TAPE!?
Garbage, simply garbage! :evil:


That has to be the ugliest kit I have ever seen. I certainly wouldn't have that fitted to my wheelchair

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:01 pm 
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TheBlueDragon wrote:

That has to be the ugliest kit I have ever seen. I certainly wouldn't have that fitted to my wheelchair


That's why it is in that purple box: shit in a purple dress! :pukeleft:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:16 pm 
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You can't polish a turd though hahaha

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:42 pm 
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TheBlueDragon wrote:
You can't polish a turd though hahaha

Indeed you can't! You should see the types of complaints on their forum: it's full of failures surrounding that potted electrical circuit. One person even claimed that they bought EVERYTHING Zex, and over time EVERY component failed at least once. I just felt sorry for that person.



As far as my experience is going: it's going absolutely GREAT! I've been using the nitrous in various conditions over various lengths of time to get used to the system. Although it's quite the small jetting size, the effect it has on the car's tune is quite amazing. The tune I have brings the boost up to around the 20psi mark at times and that boost gets quite hot with the factory intercooler and hot climate. I often feel the power fall when it gets over 90 outside; it must be due to the detonation sensor kicking boost and timing back. NOT SO WITH NITROUS ACTIVATED! The nitrous' cooling effect becomes more apparent the longer I use it as it draws more heat from the boost and I can feel it pull harder gradually; this cooling effect also reduces the detonation threshold greatly. Trev is indeed the WIZARD OF NOS! :bow:

Even when I am off the nitrous, I still have the full time power the tune provides. So all in all, I have reached my goal with this car: remain physically STOCK, economical, quiet (neighborhood friendly), fun, unassuming to the masses (including the authorities!), RELIABLE (thanks to Highpower quality and design), yet powerful (enough to slip the clutch) while using minimal nitrous (to keep refill costs down and enjoy longer use).

I don't go racing as often as I used to, so I won't be getting any performance comparisons any time soon. I'm just happy to have the ability to con a buddy or two out of some pocket change if I play my cards right! :yes:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:28 pm 
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EXCELLENT report and I just hope it helps a few people to avoid JUNK like Zex & Co and encourage them to appreciate that while WON costs more, they are actually getting BETTER VALUE FOR MONEY
I'd rather pay £1,000 and get £1,000 worth of product (which is what you get when you buy WON), than pay £500 and only get £100 worth of product, which is what you get when you buy ANY other kit as they are ALL THE SAME & ALL JUNK!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:14 pm 
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I'll be getting even MORE value once I set up the Maximiser. With the progressive control, I'll not only extend my clutch's life, but also reduce the amount of nitrous! This will extend the life of each bottle fill AND reduce the overall cost of refills per year!

I just want to emphasize that not having to worry about the condition of the solenoids in a nitrous system, or wondering whether the HOT cylinders will finally knock on you (for whatever reason) makes nitrous-oxide in general all the more enjoyable! :yes:

I'll update this thread once I have the Maximiser set up and working.

HAPPY SPRAYING! ;)

P.S.

I may get one of those SFBK2's sometime this year. I have some really fun ideas for one of those kits! :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:04 pm 
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I really like the idea of those slick fit kits I want it just for anti lag so would only need a tiny shot like 10hp which should equate to more with boost
I've got a full won kit in the garage but it takes up too much space so it's either slick fit or little bottle



I guess it's back to phoning for insurance quotes again and laughing at the prices again


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 Post subject: Re: NOS to WON kit: INSTALLED! Chevrolet Sonic 1.4T
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:14 pm 
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The new Series II SFBK's are MUCH better than the Series I in a number of ways;

Bigger nitrous bottle but still reasonably small
Replaceable fuel gas cannister rather than needing to refill it
Etc.

Insurance premiums shouldn't be excessive if you go to either Adrian Flux or Greenlight.

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