NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Nitrous Oxide ( NOS / N20 ) Forum
 
It is currently Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:31 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:49 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 24
Seems like WON controllers don't have boost based control option or am I missing something ?

In the future I might need a controller that limits nitrous flow until boost is high enough. Do WON solenoids work with Nitrous Express controller ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Advertisement

Wizards of NOS Nitrous Oxide Systems
 Post subject: Re: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:22 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 18701
Location: Doncaster
There's a number of ways you can link nitrous to boost using the Max;

1) Simply by determining 'how long' it takes boost to reach the desired level and using the 'time' based delivery feature

2) Add a simple boost pressure switch to either activate or de-activate the Max and then rely on the 'time' based delivery feature

3) Add a boost pressure transducer (or link to your existing MAP or MAF sensor) and link that to the Max terminal 13;
http://www.noswizard.com/pdf/max_v2_wiring.pdf
This will give you 'actual' boost pressure linked nitrous delivery.

Number 2 is generally the best option as it gives you a higher level of adjustability and access to more features but option 3 is the only way to have 'actual' boost linked nitrous delivery.

_________________
Regards

Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:26 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 24
My plan was to make very big hp numbers from diesel engine with nitrous. Boost referenced nitrous flow to prevent flame out from too cold intake air, more boost, more nitrous. Maybe also run without intercooler to keep charge warmer. Can nitrous be sprayed before turbo to prevent compressor wheel overheating from very high bost pressures ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:33 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 18701
Location: Doncaster
Lenny wrote:
My plan was to make very big hp numbers from diesel engine with nitrous.
Sounds good.

Boost referenced nitrous flow to prevent flame out from too cold intake air,
I've never heard of that being a problem on any of our existing customers cars!!!! What makes you think you'll have that problem???

more boost, more nitrous.
That's fine but most people use it in reverse.

Maybe also run without intercooler to keep charge warmer.
Although I'm confident that excessively low fuel temps will ultimately be a limiting factor on a gasoline engine, again I'm not yet aware that the same will apply with diesel fuel but logic suggest it might be, although I'd expect it to be at a much lower level than when using gasoline.

Can nitrous be sprayed before turbo to prevent compressor wheel overheating from very high boost pressures ?
Yes it can but it may not be as effective and would have a lower max level than after the compressor.

_________________
Regards

Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:33 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 24
Noswizard wrote:

Boost referenced nitrous flow to prevent flame out from too cold intake air,
I've never heard of that being a problem on any of our existing customers cars!!!! What makes you think you'll have that problem???


This is what I don't want to happen, it usually kills the turbocharger. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLh0ufSLKxs

I believe it's because of too cold air in the cylinder. Diesels ignite from cylinder heat, lots of fuel also cools diesel combustion process, you can get flame out from excess diesel only but the explosion in the exhaust is usually softer than with heavy doses of fuel, maybe because theres mory oxygen with nitrous. So, you need enough boost before spraying that heavy dose of nitrous.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:06 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 18701
Location: Doncaster
Lenny wrote:
This is what I don't want to happen, it usually kills the turbocharger. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLh0ufSLKxs
Although I've seen that many times on gasoline engines, I've NEVER seen that happen on a diesel engine.
I can understand how it would happen if they were using propane or methanol as the fuel enrichment but NOT if they were using the OEM diesel supply. Can you get full details of what that truck was using for fuel enrichment.


I believe it's because of too cold air in the cylinder.
I VERY MUCH DOUBT that is the case, as we have MANY diesel customers and NONE have EVER had any problems like that and many of our customers are the quickest in their class in the world.

Diesels ignite from cylinder heat, lots of fuel also cools diesel combustion process, you can get flame out from excess diesel only but the explosion in the exhaust is usually softer than with heavy doses of fuel, maybe because theres mory oxygen with nitrous.
IF the flame was being PUT OUT, there would NOT be an explosion, what is happening is the ignition is occurring TOO SOON causing a BACKFIRE, that's why it's NOT out of the exhaust. If the explosion was out of the exhaust it wouldn't damage ANY induction parts.
IF that guy (and others who have suffered this problem), are injecting either propane or methanol (with say water injection), THAT fuel would PRE-IGNITE and cause a MASSIVE BACKFIRE in the induction system.
Based on my previous successes with my existing customers I'm pretty certain, that as long as you follow MY advice you WON'T suffer that problem.
;)

So, you need enough boost before spraying that heavy dose of nitrous.
It's ALWAYS beneficial to progressively deliver the nitrous, especially from low rpm and that's why I invented Pulsoids & progressive controllers. :yes:

_________________
Regards

Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:34 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 24
Diesel is vaporized inside the cylinder but there's not enough heat to ignite it, vaporised fuel goes to exhaust manifold and ignites there from the heat of other cylinder exhaust gases and hot turbine wheel.

Here's without nitrous, just too big (250% oversize) injectors that don't atomize well.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7fECIdRNPw

Same happens here when the engine is still cold. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtlMd_2RaVI

Who are those diesel racers using your products and how much they spray ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 18701
Location: Doncaster
Lenny wrote:
Diesel is vaporized inside the cylinder but there's not enough heat to ignite it,
Although I wouldn't claim to be a diesel expert, it would be my expectation that as long as there was enough heat to vaporise the fuel, the fuel would ignite.

vaporised fuel goes to exhaust manifold and ignites there from the heat of other cylinder exhaust gases and hot turbine wheel.
IF that was the case, the explosion would be in the exhaust and would NOT occur in the intake. having said that, I do appreciate that it is possible for the combustion to feedback through a cylinder on overlap under certain conditions.

Here's without nitrous, just too big (250% oversize) injectors that don't atomize well.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7fECIdRNPw

Same happens here when the engine is still cold. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtlMd_2RaVI
Both of those examples are entirely different to the first example you gave (as the explosions are only occurring in the exhaust) and neither caused damage to the induction system.

Just be clear, I'm NOT saying that your assessment of the cause is definitely incorrect but from what I've seen and my customers have experienced, along with the info you've provided and the lack of comprehensive info about the first vehicle you linked to), I'm pretty sure you're blaming the wrong cause.


Who are those diesel racers using your products and how much they spray ?
They are numerous and mostly in Europe. Most are regular modern cars that are making high percentage power increases over their original base power. If you have a look in the diesel section or do a search for diesel on our forum, you should find posts from at least a couple of them.

_________________
Regards

Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:59 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 24
Noswizard wrote:

vaporised fuel goes to exhaust manifold and ignites there from the heat of other cylinder exhaust gases and hot turbine wheel.
IF that was the case, the explosion would be in the exhaust and would NOT occur in the intake. having said that, I do appreciate that it is possible for the combustion to feedback through a cylinder on overlap under certain conditions.

it's happening in the exhaust and breaking turbine blades or axle. Those other videos didn't have much fuel or were idling and no nitrous so the explosion is softer. Youtube is full of diesel nitrous "backfires", mostly in the exhaust, some in intake. You can see that the flame is quenching when the smoke gets white.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Boost based nitrous controller
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:44 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 18701
Location: Doncaster
I doubt the cause for the inlet backfires is the same as those in the exhaust and I was targeting my replies at those in the intake, as that was the concern you first mentioned.

Whatever the case, IF 'ANY' problem is caused by excessive nitrous at low rpm, feeding the nitrous to the engine progressively will CWERTAINLY solve/prevent that. :yes:

Getting back to your first request about the Max and boost, it looks to me like all you really need is the Max to either;

1) Deliver the nitrous progressively from a low level at the launch

or

2 Delay the initial activation by a fraction of a second AND deliver the nitrous progressively

Both of which the Max can do in a number of ways. :)

_________________
Regards

Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

  • Advertisement
Wizards of NOS Sparkplugs
Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits