NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Blah -

So the one thing I hate about this entire process is how long it takes for me to get a bottle filled while here in Italy. The weather is starting to turn ( rain and cold out ) so I don’t know how much more real world testing I’ll be able to do. I am told that both bottles should be good to go by the end of the week. I would say more to come on that around Friday/Saturday or so. I am currently shopping for a tank about 1 gallon in size that will fit where the air intake currently sits. I have a Varaam waiting as a Christmas gift so I will be able to use that spot for my fuel cell.

To keep things going in the mean time I have made a list of “to-do’s” to try to complete during the winter time.

- Put together/install stand alone fuel cell system
- Find someone who will ship me a freakin 1 piece drive-shaft.
- Dyno tune and dial in 150 shot on the nozzle.
- Contemplate 175ish shot.

That would be it for the kit as it sits now using the single nozzle setup. I will say that in the works in a LS specific Pro-Style Direct Port setup using the stock LS style intake. It will be a one off piece by Trevor himself and from what I’m told this will be the only one like it done for a LS stock intake manifold. The nozzles in questions are over the top along with the prescribed placement. So I’m pretty excited to say the least and more to come on this later as we get closer to installation and final design ques. The setup will be intended to support well north of 500hp on the spray.

Almost forgot, I received my spark plugs today too for over 200 shot spraying. They are B8EFS part number 1049. I had to special order these through summit racing because Advanced doesn’t carry them online like I had hoped :-).

UPDATE: 23 OCT 13

I got my bottles back today,YYYYAAAAAYYYY !!! Sadly I need to replace the SPRV on my WON bottle. It's no big deal really given it's age and all. I will be ordering a new SPRV along with a pressure gauge as well. The dyno day is next Saturday the 2nd and I'm pretty excited. Its been getting cool fast lately so I will be installing my bottle heating sometime this weekend.

UPDATE: 27 OCT 13

Made some good progress today and figured I would share. I made some modification to the corner of the trunk where my bottle sits in. Now it's way easier to get the bottle in and out of the pull pin mount. Then after that small win I turned my attention to the bottle heater. The only issue is when I went to actually install the bottle heater I could not find it. This was a bit frustrating because I kind of really need it now,lol. Needless to say, I gave up after trying to look for it for about three hours.

Any-who,

For now I am resulted to using my heat gun for the time being. I am well aware that outside of an official properly designed bottle heater,be it in car or otherwise. I run the risk of creating hot-spots on the bottle causing damage and potentially hurting myself. However,compared to the torch method,I like to think a heat gun used with finess isn't AS bad.

I brought bottle pressure up to about 1050psi-ish and headed out for another round of tweaking. The only things I have changed since last time are the tune,some small setting in the MAXIMISER for nitrous Pulesoid opening timing,installed a gauge on the NX bottle, and installed new wide band sensors on the LC-1's. This was because I wasn't convinced that they where telling me the truth last time. Turns out I was right,as soon as I installed the new ones I got completely different numbers -.- ...

The first two or three passes the widebands was showing me a very rich reading at WOT ( about 9.6-8ish ). I returned home and pulled the wide-band sensors letting them hang while doing a clean air calibration. I figured I should start hear because sometimes that can give wacky readings ( the LC1's from what I read is known for this ). After that I did another pass on the spray and the wide-band read out said 10.0 dead even on both banks. This tells me that it may have been off,but not by to much. I know there is lots of power to be had on the table and in reality the car is unsafe rich for spray.

EDIT: I should clarify that 10.0 isn't necesarily "unsafe for spray", but running this rich leaves lots of power on the table. It's definitely ultra safe,but I'm more concerned with peak efficiency and power from the kit then merely being overly safe. I would be happier to see it in the mid 11's at WOT while on the spray.


That being said, I need to pull fuel up top after about 4500rpm is where it seems to go south. It's literally right after the kit itself hits at WOT. I don't have the means to properly pull fuel via tune with HP Tuners or anything and the log/re-tune method isn't very good either for my Diablo Hand held. Granted I CAN make WOT fuel changes in the handheld,that isn't the best method tuning wise. I know I can make fuel adjustments in the fuel pulsesoid itself which will help safely and more accurately make fuel changes while on the spray then simply changing one of two parameters in the tune WITHOUT having the ability to immediately see the changes or make corrections after writing it.

So needless to say this is the route I am going to take while dialing in my kit . Unlike most nitrous kits which most of us are used to ( including me ) the WON stuff isn't necessarily dependent on the "jets". There is a valve inside that you can adjust you flow with to obtain more/less fuel nitrous without solely relying on the jet itself.

It's kind of cool,but I'm not sure I need a special tool for it. I'm pretty sure it's just a allen/star key of some sort,but more to come on that later. The sure thing is with all this testing and tweaking, I go through a bit of nitrous and it takes FOREVER to get my bottles filled. Plus with only having ONE good working bottle at the moment,I can't get multiples filled at one time. If I had them I would get three or four at a time filled for this very reason.

At any rate the dyno day is this saturday and it will be on a dyno jet 224 xlc. I hope to get a handle on this over fueling issue before then because I know it will affect the power some. At the end of the day its just a tool and I intend to use it as such.

10:1 is obviously too rich but it's SAFE (NOT unsafe as you stated - which may be a typo) and the only down side is that the peak power will be down.

I really hope you can find the heater, as the problem with a heater gun (of any type), is that the heat/pressure will soon drop as unlike a specific bottle heater, there's nothing constantly providing heat.

If we can send your parts direct we can have them delivered in 24 hours, that could help ensure you have plenty of nitrous, assuming you can get a fill before the dyno run.

I would feel better if it where closer to 11-11.5 and yes you are right. I will keep looking for the heater,Ihope its not stolen.

UPDATE: 04NOV13


Ok so a quick update! The dyno day last Saturday was cancelled because the operator was very sick. So they insisted we move it to the 9th which is this Saturday! I am excited a little, but I will be better once it is over said and done. The good news is I finally ordered a DS though! I also did some adjustments to the tune bringing WOT AFR to 12.5 off of the spray. My goal is around 11.5-11.7 on the spray, I’m trying to maintain safety with efficiency. As always I will keep you guys posted with anything that changes !

Shame it was delayed.

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="6"]Dyno Day Results !!![/SIZE][/COLOR]

CLIFF NOTES:[COLOR="Red"]N/A 357[COLOR="Black"]/[/COLOR]368trq[/COLOR] and 150 shot [COLOR="red"]496hp[COLOR="Black"]/[/COLOR]566trq[/COLOR]

Well, let me start off by saying, I am very excited to finally have numbers for you guys who are following the thread. I was the first in line to run trying to make an effort to run the car in the coolest part of the day. However, the first two and half passes didn't take as we struggled to get the ignition pick-up to read. After settling that fiasco we FINALLY got the RPM signal to read and register on the dyno software.

But this time the car was already heat soaked and I was a bit irritated. Non the less I pressed on and did the N/A pass and off nitrous I did 357hp/368trq. That wasn't too bad considering the average for a bolt on LS2 is anywhere between 350hp to 380hp depending on the tune. Afterwards, I shut the car down and let it cool while I heated up the bottle via heat gun (I know I know). I got the bottle pressure up to about 1050psi or so in hopes it maintain between pulls. The nitrous numbers are 496hp/566trq.

I'm 100% sure there is MUCH more left in the car with changing of minor things and dialing in the kit more. I'm still seeing very low AFR's (10.3 at WOT) so I have some to gain there. I don't think the clutch is going to take too much more punishment though. We will see as I continue to see how much more I can get out of the kit now that I know where I stand. I'm not trying to obtain crazy dyno numbers, more to get the most performance out of what I have.

There is also video,but I am waiting on my buddy to edit it and load it up.
I'm really excited and can't wait to see what's left in it! Stay tuned!

PICS:

Uploaded with ImageShack.com

GREAT result for a first 'serious' attempt and that's a MASSIVE torque figure for that amount of power, which shows there is more power to come when the tune is optimised and I predict close to 200 HP from JUST the 150 HP jets.

Thanks Trevor,
I may give it another try before the new year.

Very pleased to hear it Cardea.

Were you retarding the timing on the last run and if so by how much?

The tune is setup with timing pulled for a 150 shot using the standard 2* per 50hp rule most Americans use. I am also running a BR7 plug which is three ranges cooler then stock as well as a bigger FP. So it is setup to be very safe and I can safely remove quite a bit of fuel as I intend to to obtain the 11.5-11.7 I am searching for at WOT.

Unless the stock pistons are known to be fragile, you should NOT need to retard your timing AT ALL, when using a WON system on such a small percentage increase.

FYI I have customers with engines in the region of just 150 ci that run 150 HP of WON power on FULL advance.

I'd suggest you add ONE degree back per run and just keep an eye/ear open for any signs of problems.

Trevor,
As soon as I get a tuner that allows me to write my own tunes I will do that. For now,I will see what I can achieve with that I have. My biggest concern aside from getting power back to exceed 150hp is the drive train. The diff is holding on for dear life,lol.

THE VIDEO:

He had more shots but the file for his other camera corrupted thanks to Windows amazing qualities. So all he had left was the rear tire shots from his Go-Pro,needless to say a vid is a vid !

Courtesy Jay-R @ Facebook.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKFhGAJDbYA

[SIZE="5"][COLOR="Red"]Without Nitrous:[/COLOR][/SIZE]


[SIZE="5"][COLOR="red"]With Nitrous:[/COLOR][/SIZE]



You'll need to use the calculator to convert torque:
http://www.convertunits.com/from/kg+m/to/lb+ft

UPDATE: 17 NOV 13

Just a quick update,
talked to Trevor and I have some parts in the mail that will fix my SPRV on the tank. I also have the pulsesoid adjustments tools,banner,and a gauge.

As far the car I have a Gforce one piece on the way and Big S is sending me a Tru-Trac that I will be installing for a killer deal. Thanks for following my build and all of your support guys. The next things I have in line are Gfrorce axle kit upgrade,diff brace,tires,and dual disk clutch is I can swing it.

UPDATE: 03 OCT 13



Got my package in today from WON and I'm excited. I have the new SPRV which will allow me to finally get my WON bottle filled. I also received a WON bottle gauge, inline gauge/sensor adapter, WON banner,and Pulsoid tools.

The tools are what I am most excited about because it will allow me to more accurately dial in my Pulsoid adjustments. It's milled in 10% increments so when I make adjustments I know EXACTLY what I'm doing and it's easy to check what I have already done.

Later this week I will go home and install the new parts on the WON bottle. As for the Pulsoid tuning it will have to wait until I finish the brakes and weather lets up.

As always I will keep you guys posted !

UPDATE: 16 JAN 14



I have not forgotten about this thread nore have I abandoned my goals or anything. The holidays took a mighty tole and I am just now getting back into the saddle. Last you guys read I recieved some parts from Trevor and was waiting to order new parts before continuing on with the build/project.

I have since ordered a new McLeod RXT Twin Disk Clutch,Varaam OTR air filter, Tick Performance upgraded master cylinder, Eaton True Trac differential, Motive 3.90 gears, master bearing rebuild kit, are all either here or on their way to me. I still have a few more items on my list of things to do before hitting the dyno again. The idea is to work all of the weak or "iffy" point of my cars drivetrain that I had the last time I hit the dyno. So not only will I MORE then make back the power I was short to my 555hp estimated goal on a 150 shot.

I should be able to get it all to the ground and reliably to boot. The only other thing I have to touch in the drivetrain is the hubs and axles themselves along with a shifter for better ergonomics,aligment and feel. Pics will come as soon as the other items come in the mail and I hope to be back at the dyno some time in may just before I leave to Germany for the DE2k event that I am putting together.

Thanks for the update Cardea.

No problem Trev.

By the way, we're currently in the process of supplying a DRY REVO system to fit this manifold for an Australian customer;

http://harrop.com.au/eng_detail.php?prod=99-AMFD11311

The only down side is that he's not aiming to make mind blowing power, so it probably won't impress the LS world.