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 Post subject: nozzle/solenoid location
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:55 pm
Posts: 8
Hello,

I've been using a NX dry shot for 2 months(ECU controlled). A friend told me my lines were way to big, and directed me to WON. After reading the NOX performance manual, today I've ordered everything except my bottle and heater. (currently running 50shot, with -4 timing when active(my tuner suggested -4)

crx, Honda d16z6, 8.6:1, bullseye252, meth/water, NeptuneRTP, ID1000's. little over 300whp only have 91 pump, hence the meth/water.

my current setup has a meth nozzle 6" from the throttle body, and the nitrous nozzle 12" from throttle body.

I absolutely LOVE nitrous with the turbo. I mostly just use it to spool, but, it REALLY goes when I spray the whole way through. Torque torque torque... (the higher in altitude I go, I have a place at 9500', the more help the turbo needs to spool. Nitrous is where its at-EVERY turbo should have nitrous...

After reading your book, I know why I go really rich for a second, then the nitrous hits. Lines way to big, nozzle to far away. ECU instantly adds fuel when parameters are met, but its taking the nitrous a bit to reach the engine.

I'm going singe point, for now.

Can you suggest where I should locate the Venom nozzle(should it angle 15deg to, or straight in?)(and can I put it directly in my coupler-will it seal at 20+psi boost?), my meth nozzle-(6" or 12" )from tb is where I have bungs welded for meth. pulsoid, ect.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Brian

Image

Was changing my motor mount earlier tonight. My 14' braided -4AN hit my +starter post and shorted. Burned a hole in my feed line. Thing took a while to bleed residual pressure. Standing there watching it, thinking this wouldn't have happened with your kit...


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 Post subject: Re: nozzle/solenoid location
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
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point78 wrote:
I've been using a NX dry shot for 2 months(ECU controlled). A friend told me my lines were way to big, and directed me to WON.
Now that what I call a GOOD friend. :yes:

After reading the NOX performance manual, today I've ordered everything except my bottle and heater.
Wise move but had I known you were going to make a complete upgrade I'd have suggested a couple of other options.

currently running 50shot, with -4 timing when active(my tuner suggested -4
On a turbo you do NOT need to retard your timing at all on a 50 shot.

my current setup has a meth nozzle 6" from the throttle body, and the nitrous nozzle 12" from throttle body.
It would be better to reverse those locations to speed up the nitrous deliver.

I absolutely LOVE nitrous with the turbo. I mostly just use it to spool, but, it REALLY goes when I spray the whole way through. Torque torque torque... (the higher in altitude I go, I have a place at 9500', the more help the turbo needs to spool. Nitrous is where its at-EVERY turbo should have nitrous...
Couldn't agree more (although it would have to be WON nitrous ONLY) and some of my most successful customers run my systems on their turbo cars.

After reading your book, I know why I go really rich for a second, then the nitrous hits. Lines way to big, nozzle to far away. ECU instantly adds fuel when parameters are met, but its taking the nitrous a bit to reach the engine.
Exactly right and in our Max Extreme controller we have an adjustable fuel ONLY delay, to counteract even the smallest amount of mismatch in fuel to nitrous delivery in that respect.

I'm going singe point, for now.
That's fine but it would be considerably better with DP.

Can you suggest where I should locate the Venom nozzle(should it angle 15deg to, or straight in?)(and can I put it directly in my coupler-will it seal at 20+psi boost?), my meth nozzle-(6" or 12" )from tb is where I have bungs welded for meth.
Normally the closer to the TB the better and if this was a wet system I'd suggest the coupler. I'd also suggest that although this is a dry system, that you buy our Crossfire injector instead of the Venom, because the Crossfire produces a MUCH wider spray pattern (its the ONLY nozzle/injector that's been DESIGNED for single injector use), than any other nozzle including our Venom.
You can see the difference between the spray patterns of the Crossfire and the Venoms (and most other US brand nozzle) here;
http://forum.nitrous-advice.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=689

The wider the spray pattern the better and more even the distribution, which is essential for a single injector application.
Although the Crossfire is a combined injector we could supply it with the fuel port blanked off or better still you could MAYBE use the fuel port for the water/meth and that would improve the mix and distribution of that if we can marry the 2 together.


pulsoid, ect.
The supply pipe MUST run inside the car (and it would be a big help to insulate/shield the pipe when it enters the engine bay) and I'd locate the Pulsoid as close to the injector as possible. If the Pulsoid looks like it would get too hot in that location, you should shield and/or conduct cool air to it, to keep it as cool as possible.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.
My pleasure.

Was changing my motor mount earlier tonight. My 14' braided -4AN hit my +starter post and shorted. Burned a hole in my feed line. Thing took a while to bleed residual pressure. Standing there watching it, thinking this wouldn't have happened with your kit...
Absolutely correct and what's even worse is when braided hose is used for fuel and it shorts out, as that leads to a major fire. Major manufacturers OBVIOUSLY appreciate that braided hose is to be avoided and that nylon pipe is the best option, because the vast majority use nylon pipe and you'll seldom see one with braided hose.

The only down side to nylon hose is the limited flow capability (of about 150 HP) but that's only a problem on BIG motor applications and certainly not a problem on most 4 & 6 cylinder motors

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: nozzle/solenoid location
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:55 pm
Posts: 8
thanks for the reply!

I emailed and asked that the Venom be switched to the Crossfire, and asked for a blanking plug. I'll put it in my coupler.

I will switch over to DP, when I swap in my new motor, whenever I get done with the build, probably next spring/summer.

thanks for your suggestions.

I'll put some fresh plugs back in and do a pull with the timing zero'd out. see how they look. When I initially installed the nx kit i ran it at -2, and it sounded meaner...

Anything else I should change, other than DP, before my order gets shipped?


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 Post subject: Re: nozzle/solenoid location
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
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point78 wrote:
thanks for the reply!
My pleasure

I emailed and asked that the Venom be switched to the Crossfire, and asked for a blanking plug. I'll put it in my coupler.
Received and will be acted on as per my email.

I will switch over to DP, when I swap in my new motor, whenever I get done with the build, probably next spring/summer.
Fine.

thanks for your suggestions.

I'll put some fresh plugs back in and do a pull with the timing zero'd out. see how they look. When I initially installed the nx kit i ran it at -2, and it sounded meaner...
The NX kit will make the engine sound 'meaner' (harsher) but with our system fitted correctly it should just sound a bit louder.

Anything else I should change, other than DP, before my order gets shipped?
I think the rest is fine from what Lisa has said but I'll take a good look personally on Monday, before we proceed any further.

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: nozzle/solenoid location
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:55 pm
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So I followed the advice of Trevor, and made a few changes to my system.

Got rid of the -4an feed line, went with the WON 5mm tubing. Here is a pic of the difference.
Image

I also went direct port, with venom injectors.
Image

And here it is installed with a WON pulsoid.
Image
I'm going to rotate the pulsoid upright, to provide a gentle arc to the shower head & allow for more movement of the engine, and I've insulated the main feed line.

Here is a pic of a heavily frosted showerhead. This pic was taken when I was testing the initial 25hp shot. I just sprayed thru 2nd gear, then drove a few minutes back to my garage-engine was up to normal operating temps, so engine bay was hot.

Image
That pretty much shows WON's theory/application regarding proper line size and placement of the components to get liquid nitrous to the nozzles.

Compare my WON setup to my former NX setup-I was advised by BOTH companies regarding how to set it up. Nx guys were helpful, and responded quickly to my questions. Problem is, they gave me totally wrong advice...

Performance wise, I no longer have the big rich/lean spikes I had when the system would activate and de-activate. This is due to using short runs of the proper size lines, and component placement.

Another major difference is when it activates.

The NX system's initial hit was hard, best way to describe it would be "sharp"- like tapping a hammer on a thick piece of steel. (probably what my drivetrain thought too...)

In contrast, the WON system comes on soft-not slow-just softer. I don't feel like I just got rear ended. Its deceivingly smooth.


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