NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Hi, I've been reading on here for some time before signing up, it seems like a great resource with many learned members, dispelling a lot of Nitrous myths from what I can see.

I've just got myself a WON kit, single injector setup with minimax. I plan on using it on a 1998 BMW 325.

Given the design of the M50 manifold, I feel it may be wise in the future, if not right away to upgrade to direct port.



If I were to install the single injector on the above setup, where would you recommend for the positioning? Pre or post Throttle body? The inlet manifold is made from plastic, there is very little plenum area before it breaks into the individual runners. The ribbed rubber intake pipe connected to the TB will be replaced shortly with a custom made metal one to remove the traction control and smooth the airflow, I could accommodate the injector during the fabrication of this.


Power wise, Regardless of which setup I go for, I don't believe I will ever run more than a 100 shot.

What would you recommend to start off? The car is currently running Just over 200 flywheel HP. I'm no stranger to speed having owned an M3 Evo and GSX-R 1000. However, I'm a nitrous n00b.

With regards to triggering the system, I'm unsure. I have a TPS with the kit, but I want to decide when to activate the nitrous, not always when its armed and I go full throttle. What is the best way to achieve this? TPS, Arming switch and then a fire switch on the wheel?



Many thanks for your time.

Hi and Welcome,

My 840 also has a plastic manifold and I opted for direct port, for the same reasons as you have already considered.
Very easy to install the crossfire injectors in the plastic too.
Have you got the ability to adjust your ignition timing as 50 shot would need -2 degrees of retard and 100 shot -4, to be safe. Your kit should have come with 50nos/20fuel ratio jets to get you started.

That layout looks like it'll need a Direct Port set up but as a basic D system isn't ideal either, that leaves you with the options discussed in this very lengthy thread.

If you want the best from your car its worth a read;
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3416&start=0

BTW Richard although it would be better to be able to retard the timing, we've had 6 cylinder BMW's achieve in excess of 100 HP on original timing.

Thanks for the link, I've started making my way through it now. I was aware of the ignition retarding but thought I'd be alright with the controller?

Regards,

Mark

As I stated above you should be OK up to the 100 mark especially with the Max set at 'modest' delivery rates.

I'm currently doing a DP install on an M50 intake, I'll post up some pictures shortly that should give you some ideas.

As I've mentioned in other threads, the quality of the installation is just as important as the quality of the components IMO. I highly recommend sending your manifold to WON for optimal fitment if you can.

This is probably a LOT more power than your looking for, but an example what can be done with an M50 manifold.













This system has flowed over 400hp on a test bench, but I'm now working on dialing it back to about 300hp with a very wide range of progressive control.


Note: For those of you who are wondering why the heck I would make the post-pulsoid legs so short for nitrous, and so long for fuel, it was a trade off based on personal experience and testing. There's a lot more being considered here than is obvious to the naked eye.

Good looking stuff Adam and I am sure your advice and help on the BMW's is well recived....

Just as point of intrests those of you that might be looking at other stand alone ignition systems may want to look at Electromotives set up as they give a windows based mapping program to allow .1 degree adjustment and firing along with many ways of retarding your ignition...
http://www.distributorless.com/products/xdi2.php

Hi Trev,are you refering to the angle or line stretch at the inlet for a lack of better term. I mean maybe adding a little more length so it could have a larger radius and not such a steep angle..once again me not being able to write what i wanna say... DAMN!!!! I feel so stupid at times....

About a year or so ago we discovered that nitrous (and then from Bruce that fuel does the same but not quite as bad), acts like a car at high speed when it goes round a bend.

Using Adams pictures as an example, if the fuel pipes were flowing nitrous (this would apply for CERTAIN), more nitrous would flow out of the right hand injectors and the same issue MIGHT be a BIT of a problem.

Wow Adam , I feel like you've just offered me a glass of champagne when all I was looking for was a shandy.

I'd like to use one set of pulsoids with a 6 way d-block - I believe thats what setup the "stealth" install on the E46 M3 in the other thread used? And either use 6 crossfires where you have your nitrous injectors or, if I had to, venom injectors in the same positions as yours.

Would I have to go as far as you have to produce an effective setup for around a 100 shot?

The 'stealth' system you mention would deliver the power level you're wanting. The system Adam is building is THE ULTIMATE pulsed progressive system for a 6 cylinder engine and capable of much more than you're wanting.

Hi Trev,

The fuel distribution is something I'm curious about, so I've got some things I'm going to try with it on the test bench. The configuration pictured is actually the first of 3 planned for testing. I think you know I'm sitting on a small mountain of extra fittings/olives/nuts and distribution line.

I've been a little quiet on all fronts getting something sorted out for work.

I remember last August when I first caught on video nitrous being "steered" by line orientation prior to the distribution block. It was a sobering experience. I've since acquired an HD video camera that will shoot 120 frames per second to look into this in greater detail. So far it's been VERY revealing....

For anyone that's still a little lost by what we are referencing: Bending the distribution lines before they enter a "Y" block will steer more volume into one of the outlets.

Mark,

The system I've shown is an example of the upper-end of the power spectrum for an inline 6 cylinder. The good news is that the technology is scalable, meaning you can run a LOT less power and still have most of the benifits. As Trev has done for me with multiple systems, send him an Email and he'll help you design a system to fit your needs.

FYI, I've found a single "150hp Pulsoid" can flow over 200hp worth of nitrous under the right conditions. (I'm guessing the new X10s are even better) How the system is plumbed makes a big difference, but in the end you probably won't need anything near that before your engine becomes the weakest link.

Obviously with these manifolds, distribution is always going to be a nightmare, but is there an 'accepted limit' that has been achieved with a single crossfire, and what location has proved most successful?

Just to confirm it is my intent to run 6 crossfires in the location of Adam's venom's in this picture.




Unless there is a reason I should run them further towards the ports on the runners themselves.

Mark

I'd follow Adams lead if I were you, as you'll be able to benefit from all his R&D and results, as I'm sure he'll share whatever he learns with all of us.

When using a single injector on a BMW 6 with an end entry, the further from the engine the better, in the entry to the plenum after the air flow meter.

With regards to this, would it be better to position the CROSSFIRE injectors in the runners themselves or in the plenum where Adam has positioned his?

Does anyone know if there is enough material to thread into and get a good seal with the crossfire? Is there more material in the runner or in the plenum?

These are all questions I was asked by the engineer who is going to drill and tap them for me.

Thanks again for your reply Trev,

The retainers wouldn't be possible in this application as there would be no access to the far sides of the manifold to screw the retainer into place as in with a flexible intake pipe.

What concerned my man today was if he drills into the manifold and there is only a few mm of material, he taps it, as soon as the injector is tightened up in the hole it will pull the tapped threads?

These were his concerns that to be honest I hadn't even thought about. I wouldn't think it would have to be tightened down that much? And a low strength sealant would make it air tight?

Perhaps he's just making an issue out of nothing. (here's hoping).

Oh, I also posted that maximiser to you today.

Regards,

Mark

It's surprising how little material you need on an intake wall for a Crossfire to hold securely - that M10x1 thread is perfect for the job, so just a couple of mm and a little threadlock to seal it will suffice as long as it's competently fitted.

Make sure that you pre-compress the olives before offering them up to your fitted Crossfires, so you only have to gently nip them up rather than man-handling them to compress the olives with injectors in situ.

Once fitted, even under heavy manifold depression there will only be in the order of a pound of pull on the Crossfire due to pressure differential, so it doesn't need to be held in all that hard. As long as your nylon lines are pre-formed to line up nicely and nuts tightened with a gentle touch, a thin plastic wall is not really a problem- another advantage of WoN gear.