NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Hi,
I have to buy spark plugs for my BMW E36 with M62B44 4.4V8 engine. I have now conventional NGK, but as I plan to shoot nitrous, what brand should I take? When I was spraying 100HP on my VR6 corrado, I used Denso Iridiu, 2 step colder, they were doing their job. Should I buy those again? 3 degrees colder already? engine compression is 10:1.
Other question is how far should I go with this engine with single nozzle? And which nozzle from WON would you suggest? Or maybe assuming that my aim is 150-200HP gain I should install direct port already? What distribution blocks do you propose for this and lines?

Damn, looks like I'm gonna have some competition, I know the M62 engine inside out - LITERALLY having rebuilt one 3 times
My advise unless you have Forged Pistons - DON'T DO IT, The standard pistons are SHITE and on 4 of my 8, the ring lands collapsed as they could NOT cope with the increased pressure.

I now have forged pistons

Man, I want to explore your knowledge! Nobody tunes this engine! How much shoudl this engine stand in this normal state? Where did you get pistons, how much did they cost? What about nikasil, did you do something to the block? How strong conrods are? And finally, how many other elements did you change to make engine stronger? ,how much do you spray?

I'm going to enjoy this as you will benefit from my mistakes and lessons learnt. In the long run I will save you a fortune as you will only have to do this once, whereas I have had two NOS installations, One replacement engine and 2 rebuilds.
My girlfriend says if you are married and want to stay married DON'T START

Too late! 5 months ago I bought E36 325i, now it is 344i, sachs performance clutch, bosch 044 fuel pomp, several semislicks, lightened body (as mine is not ) and some nitrous systems (which of I am not sure). I planed to spray +150, but you worry me, what is the limit on stock engine? And what should I do and how much money should I prepare
And my wife and daughter...I try not to worry them with my toys

OK, I suggest you sit down or better still my GF says she'll write this reply (we are a pair of petrol heads).

My story is complicated because the original installer is STILL being dragged through the courts, I have another hearing this Friday. This is all due to neglegence, nothing to do with the Nitrous and the installer is NO longer an agent of WON.

My stock pistons failed on a 150 shot, however we discovered during the rebuild that the knock sensors were shagged, so that was a contributing factor. That said, the ring lands failed again, so we went for forged pistons. You need to be aware of the basic NOS formula of -2 degrees of timing for every extra 50 BHP. I have been advised that the M62 knock sensors are good for -6 degrees. So a 150 shot is gonna put you right on the limits (mine broke at this point).

Price list, are you stiing comfortably:

JE Forged Pistons £1000
Full gasket set £600
ARP studs £200 (because new BMW stretch bolts won't work)
Remapping £300 - £1000
and I suggest you run it on Shell V-Power 99 octane after this.

Please let us know where you are?

So not that bad,there is a chance But I will not try +150 without having second engine build. You changed pistons with rings, what were rings made of, steel??
Did you manage to do something to the block as it is only coated with something on pistons side, or you just put new pistons? Did you use old main crankshaft bearings or new? Aren;t they a problem?
What did or didn't do knock sensors?
Prices. Wow, I expected V8 to cost this much. I was offered someone to make custom forged pistons for this engine, similiar quotation but they say they will last forever... I don't say no, as I think of compressor next winter, maybe forged down is a good idea. And this car should be fast on nitrous.
So idea is about 2000 pound. Uhhh...
Where I am? Now I will be doing new exhaust for my car, it will be 2x2.5", I will try on dyno free to the end, later with H flow and X flow, if I am still far from 286HP I will try to put katalysators back. I have to find place for EGT (engine bay of e36 is small with V8 inside). A can do remapping here cheap, there are several ideas, first is switching 2 maps, second is retard activated at 100% WOT, second is Ecumaster piggyback retarding ignition when nitrous is activated.
Fuel should be no problem with Bosh 044 fuel pump.
Spark plugs...I always used Denso Iridium, never failed, my friend used NGD Iridium, they broke once, now he is using Denso Iridium too. I am not sure which to buy now, currently in engine are new usuall NGK. If I will not spray more than 100, then only 2 steps colder?
Nitrous. I still fight with myself what to put on, I have my old simple cold fusion one nozzle set, I have completely newm never used 5cyl direct port from NX with purge, heater,progressive controler from FJO/NX 15535 (octane series gauge style) with sensors, solenoid driver, wideband input and so on. But... I am not convinced if it will be ok, I am looking at WON instllations and they convince me. Progressive controller is ok, but I am not sure to go with nx further on DP.
Bottle I have some strange carbon fbre with strange valve, but it is very light: http://www.kajman.witam.net/srtb/pet/za ... resize.jpg
But I am not sure what to install. Installation is in one week, I would rather choose some way. If I am not sure with WON untill this time, I will install for some time single nozzle system to have somethhing working and prepare better for Direct Port. You are ahead of me, maybe it will help me to avoid some things... I would rather copy your proven to work system than guess what will work... But I have to admit, I used NX in my previous car, sprayed with single nozzle +100HP on VR6 2.8 engine, over 200punds of gas and nothing happened, that is why I was so optimistic about this 4.4 v8.

I worry about torque, which may be a problem in this engine....

Forgot to say I went for Total Seal top rings and used the 2nd ring and oil ring that came from JE.
My compressions are nothing less than 200psi now.
We lightly honed the Alusil Bores with no problems.
Reassembled with new standard shells on big ends and mains.

I also have a 2.5" stainless steel exhaust, sports cats, slightly silenced It sounds brutal, just how a V8 should

Did you try to make exhaust without cats? And yhou have double 2.5" too, as I have seen in some cars single piping on this engine...?

It never occurred to me to try without CATS as I wondered if it would ever pass an MOT without them
And yes its a twin system

Where in the UK are you?

I am far away, from Poland That is why there is no one to help me with nitrous system,as not many spray here over 100HP.

OK, good luck and I will give you as much help as possible via this forum

I will try to get as much of it as possible Do you have in mind lines length and number of blocks and so on in your engine bay? If I want to order something like this to make it here it would be easier...

When Wizards re-fitted the system they used Y-Blocks rather than Dist blocks. Much neater and kept the pipe lengths to a minimum (see photos). Twin 5mm nylon lines run from the bottles in the boot to the pulsoids.

When you killed your engines, did you sprawy direct port or single nozzle? Was it with progressive controller? And how did you retard timing then?
When you changed ecu program, did you raise redline? Where is it now?
Do you have EGT and wideband?

When you killed your engines, did you sprawy direct port or single nozzle?
I have always had a DP system.
The intial distruction was NOTHING to do with Nitrous, the 2nd time was because I forgot to retard the ignition on a 150HP hit. When I changed over to forged pistons, I discovered that the ring lands were cracked on 4 more pistons, so I thinks its pretty certain to say that the extra 150HP on standard pistons was too much.

Was it with progressive controller?
I have the Max Extreme RACE


And how did you retard timing then?
I have a Unichip installed with 5 increments of retard


When you changed ecu program, did you raise redline? Where is it now?
I have not raised the redline, quite the contrary, I shift earlier on NOS

Do you have EGT and wideband
No

Serious thing. Why do you shift earlier and where is it? I was planning to add 500rpm and spray most in this area, now I can see I should rethink it Which pistons rings were most damaged? Was there some pattern i.e. front, rear, middle?

You must have missed one of my quotes. When it was first dyno'd on an extra 150HP, torque was 525ft/lbs at 2900rpm.
It started to misfire at 4900rpm, which we later fixed by reducing the plug gaps to 0.5mm.

I get the better times by shifting at 4500, so it drops back to 3000rpm and remains at peak torque. It has not been dyno'd since.

There was no patern to the piston damage apart from it ALWAYS being a cracked ring land between top and midldle ring.

I am still thinking of Dinan's cars, they supercharge this engine up to 450-480HP without changing elements, why do rings break from nitrous and not from supercharger?
I wonder, if shouldn't we use whole rpm range and shot more at high rpm, keeping away from low rpm with high torque...?

It's usually not the rings that break but the ring lands that do.

This is caused by the fact that nitrous can create HUGE peak combustion forces for the following reasons;

1) The amount of charge that can be added to an engine at low rpm is HUGE compared with forced induction and the lower the rpm that such increases are made the more time it takes for the piston to move away from such forces and as a consequence the piston is subjected to higher loads at low rpm than at higher rpm.

2) Over the entire rpm range the flame speed is quicker and unless timing is appropriately retarded, not only will the peak pressure be higher but it will also be earlier in the cycle, which magnifies the effect of the higher combustion pressures on the pistons.

Limiting the use of nitrous to higher rpm helps reduce the risk but wastes the greatest benefits to perfromance, so the answer for maximum performance is to retard the timing correctly and/or fit forged pistons.

I never said the rings break, it was ALWAYS the Ring Land between 1st and 2nd ring.

Sorry, but I don't know what does ring land mean? My english is not perfect really
Is there a chance to spray more than 100HP on this engine with one nozzle with proper (how many degrees) retard and progressive, shifting by 6000RPM?

Well, frankly speaking I would like to built new engine next winter and this season spent with some stock ones, that's why I ask, I just finished my swap of this 4.4 to e36 sedan and would like to drive it for some time and fun. And for next year to make it a real beast Which it should be with 1300kg and 550HP