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 Post subject: Re: Bottle weights
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:37 pm 
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Hi :)

I am sure Trev will answer this soon, but just for basics...

When they filled it with that 5 lbs...you DID see them weigh the bottle BEFORE and AFTER ???

Because if not....thats why....

All the best Brett :)

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 Post subject: Re: Bottle weights
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:46 pm 
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hi brett yes watched them do everything, they fill on the scales so you can see whats going in. They use a pumped system so they shouldn't have any probs at all but they just couldn't get any more in.
I suppose they could have run out (of liquid?)
More of a concern to me is where my surplus weight(liquid) went. not whether these particular vendors have difficulties of their own, after all they put in 5lb and i paid for 5lb
I acquired a nice new WON 11lb bottle (that i'm hoping to exchange) this week and its identical to mine... except "pie" mark so mine is an 11lb er.

I hooked my defective bottle up to my gauge and got about 350psi. got the"fairy"out no bubbles. so no leak

then last night my TIG welder died, disconnecting everything to ship for repair it dawned on me that i had a cheaper (than n20) pressure source with which to check to working pressure, 1500psi of argon.... GUESS WHAT!!!!!!

YEP AT 500psi I'VE GOT A LEAK very small but obviously enough

Tap out,clean "o" ring and mating surfaces and sorted.
No more leak
looks like i've solved my own problem. if anyone thinks there could be anything else going on don't hesitate to let me know. All this learning the hard way could get expensive, i guess i should be grateful that they could only get 5lb in.
WE live and learn right off for a refill

Keep up the good work folks :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Bottle weights
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:08 pm 
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battyone wrote:
i've had a bit of a problem with filling a large 11lb bottle. It's a nice shiny new luxfer, pie marked bottle. had been leak tested with compressed air to about 150 psi, not ideal but apart from filling how else can you check?
Far from ideal and the best way for Joe public to test a bottle is to fill it with nitrous GAS (only) and then immerse the top of the bottle in a bucket of water.

Any way i took it to shakey to get filled by ............(i'm sure you know who i'm on about they only do NOS) who are there at most meetings they had a grumble about the bottle type and the highpower fittings but after some messing about managed to get just 5lb in. told me that luxfer type bottle meant for co2 so possibly will not hold the 11lbs that you might think it should. only had to pay for 5lb so no real harm done.
The fact the bottle has CO2 stamped on it is of NO CONSEQUENCE to its use for nitrous, so that shows how little that guy knows, which probably explains why he sell HolleyNOS gear.

So rather than keep all my eggs in 1 basket so to speak i immediately went back to the van and filled my 2 small (20oz & 16oz) bottles all went well.
having done a bit of messing around and the static testing the 20oz was low so thought a top would be a good idea, bottle in freezer over night, hooked up to filler sat on scales -bit of a hiss..... then nothing! no weight gain nothing! all thats left in 11lb bottle is gas!
First of all you can't avoid approx 2 or so lbs of nitrous ending up as gas, as that's what the GAS weighs in a full bottle. The ONLY way to avoid wasting it is to top up bottles rather than empty and fill.
That is assuming that the dip tube is optimum length and does not leak.
Other potential causes for less than expected liquid being dispensed from the bottle are;
1) Short dip tube
2) Leaking dip tube
3) Leaking valve


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 Post subject: Re: Bottle weights
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:13 pm 
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battyone wrote:
hi brett yes watched them do everything, they fill on the scales so you can see whats going in. They use a pumped system so they shouldn't have any probs at all but they just couldn't get any more in.
I suppose they could have run out (of liquid?)
If they couldn't get any more in then they had run out of liquid in their bottle.

then last night my TIG welder died, disconnecting everything to ship for repair it dawned on me that i had a cheaper (than n20) pressure source with which to check to working pressure, 1500psi of argon.... GUESS WHAT!!!!!!

YEP AT 500psi I'VE GOT A LEAK very small but obviously enough
That would explain it.

Tap out,clean "o" ring and mating surfaces and sorted.
No more leak
looks like i've solved my own problem. if anyone thinks there could be anything else going on don't hesitate to let me know. All this learning the hard way could get expensive, i guess i should be grateful that they could only get 5lb in.
WE live and learn right off for a refill.
Correct you were lucky to lose so little and learning the hard way costs a great deal, so think yourself lucky that I did most of that for you (and all my other customers), because you wouldn't be happy having to pay for all I've had to learn in 30 years, to make it easier and cheaper for you guys now. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Bottle weights
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:32 am 
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:bow: many thanks, just a couple of little points to clear up, as this 11lb bottle is only used for storage/filling small bottles.
1: would it be better to remove dip tube and use upside down? thereby eliminating waste.
2: if no, to 1 does dip tube bore have any effect ?
:cheers: nige

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 Post subject: Re: Bottle weights
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:06 pm 
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Yes it would be better to remove the tube and use up side down, which would REDUCE the amount of nitrous that ends up exiting the bottle as gas.
The bore of the dip tube has no effect when using to fill another bottle.

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