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 Post subject: Nitrous Control
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:14 am 
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just a general, shoot the breeze throw an idea around thread here..

this is my thoery.. stand size non progressed shot of nitrous.. say 100 hp.. wouldnt it be logical to assume that at a lower rpm there will be more n2o in the cylinder per intake stroke than at a higher rpm? valve open longer, more time to fill the cylinder with nitrous..etc.. i know at high rpm VE increases and will probably negate this, but i havent gotten that far yet. so if you get better cylinder filling at lower rpm, then its safe to assume that at high rpm your not taking as much n2o in "per stroke" so then, continuing the theory, wouldnt it be safe to assume that the high rpm cylinder pressures would be lower than the low rpm cylinder pressures?? (again not taking into account ve)

and if this is correct then wouldnt it also technically be possible using advanced datalogging to tune your nitrous shot to acheive max cylinder pressure instead of aiming for a "hp" number? say the limit on your engine is 1600psi per stroke before you need to worry about breaking stuff, but at 10,000 rpm your only at 1400.. using the same shot though, at 7k rpm, your at your 1600 mark.. so its safe to add more nitrous higher up in the rpm range?? the max could aready control the nitrous to a precise enough level to do it i beleive.. especially with revos.

anyways, just throwing it around i know there is more to it,, VE, and piston speeds, loads on the rod, etc.. just looking for that extra ounce of efficiency :loser:


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous Control
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:15 am 
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Thats right.
But at the end it all comes down to...

"How much Nitrous can i spray with that engine?"

And than you have to get the power to the strip.

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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous Control
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:35 am 
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xclr82xtc wrote:
just a general, shoot the breeze throw an idea around thread here..

this is my thoery.. stand size non progressed shot of nitrous.. say 100 hp.. wouldnt it be logical to assume that at a lower rpm there will be more n2o in the cylinder per intake stroke than at a higher rpm? valve open longer, more time to fill the cylinder with nitrous..etc.. i know at high rpm VE increases and will probably negate this, but i havent gotten that far yet. so if you get better cylinder filling at lower rpm, then its safe to assume that at high rpm your not taking as much n2o in "per stroke" so then, continuing the theory, wouldnt it be safe to assume that the high rpm cylinder pressures would be lower than the low rpm cylinder pressures?? (again not taking into account ve)
All true (even taking VE in to account) and it's because the cylinder pressures are lower at high rpm and because US kits create excessively high cylinder pressures, that all the top nitrous guys over there aim to run in the high rpm range.

and if this is correct then wouldnt it also technically be possible using advanced datalogging to tune your nitrous shot to acheive max cylinder pressure instead of aiming for a "hp" number?
You need at least one in chamber cylinder pressure sensor to do that and they aren't cheap at approx. $2,000 each but I have it on my agenda to try and create a cheaper version to achieve a number of things, including your suggestion.

say the limit on your engine is 1600psi per stroke before you need to worry about breaking stuff, but at 10,000 rpm your only at 1400.. using the same shot though, at 7k rpm, your at your 1600 mark.. so its safe to add more nitrous higher up in the rpm range?? the max could aready control the nitrous to a precise enough level to do it i beleive.. especially with revos.
Correct.

anyways, just throwing it around i know there is more to it,, VE, and piston speeds, loads on the rod, etc.. just looking for that extra ounce of efficiency :loser:
Just as we are. ;)
Thankfully when using one of our systems you can use the most efficient sector of the rpm range safely (the lower rpm range to achieve better results, my only problem is convincing American's it's safe to do so, after they've had such bad experiences using US kits.

Other than that Thomas is right about the other factors that are 'usually' more pertinent for most customers.


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous Control
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:11 pm 
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What sort of rpm is safe to start spraying then


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous Control
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:37 pm 
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That depends on the load the engine is under. If it is FREE to accelerate at least as quickly as normal NA use then you could use it from tick over. However, if you were climbing a steep hill in top gear at say 3,000 rpm and struggling, it would be risky to activate the system at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous Control
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:21 pm 
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yeah thats what i was always taught. its not the rpm, its the load on the engine. the load is what can causes detonation. thats why you see some big time race engine guys that build these 16:1 motors put them on the dyno, they detonate like hell when they load the cell till they get up in the Rs. then it goes away.. also the higher the rpm the physical advantage of just having less time to detonate helps.. ive even heard some builders that build big time fuel engines say that the engines require a certain amount of detonation to run.. n thats juts crazy.'


i gotta be honest trev.. i wasnt sure if my theory was even on the right level or not lol.


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