NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Sorry no that's not the right direction of thinking try getting in reverse gear.

dam, 2nd go

wait until the valve is open with the normal air/fuel mixture already flowing
then fire the nos
becauses theres already a flow into the cylinder the pressure of the nos just increases the suction, drawing more air in?

ill start pondering on my 3rd go now

That's more like it now take it a stage further but instead of posting it on this thread you can PM me, as I don't want to disclose the exact solution just yet, even if some people 'think' they may have the answer.

ok trev
ill pm you when the ole brain has chewed a bit more

"becauses theres already a flow into the cylinder the pressure of the nos just increases the suction, drawing more air in?"

So then the injector would be in the inlet runner close to, and just above the valve to induce a bit of Bernoulli's wotsit, as opposed to firing directly into the cylinder under the inlet valve which could slow the flow into the cylinder due to the rapid expansion from the high pressure gas?

Sorry Perry - wrong!!!!

Check out this thread for a few more clues;
http://www.technical-forum.com/nitrous- ... t2630.html

Ahh!!
I see now. I think.

Separate the fuel and nitrous inputs to allow for phase change in each fluid so you get the right mix at the inlet and therefore create a depression behind the said mix to aid the influx of nasp air eh?

Perry you're making me wonder if I messed up when I typed that thread or maybe I just made it too ambiguous when trying to avoid making the knowledge too obvious!

If you don't get this by the time we meet up at the Pod, I'll explain it all to any customer that's interested.

i think ive got it only read the last pm ive just sent because i think the light bulb just came on!!!!
also the one before was still grasping at straws lol

all i have to say is MUHHARRRHAAARRRRRRRRR
i worked it out

it is an awesome concept, and i reckon its gonna revolutionise nos usage
and like most of the best concepts in the world its soooo simple
im sworn to secrecy by trev under pain of death


the last word on this i can say is........................
im good, im good, im so very good and the hints are there for you all to find

ps sorry if im coming across as bigheaded, but i cant believe it got it!

That's not bigheaded that's fact, you did get it.

What amazes me most is that this thread/concept has been passed over by smarter guys than you and I without a word and despite 500 hits very little has been questioned since my original post.

Never mind, it's our secret now.

Been reading over this thread and been thinking is the fuel going to be injected into the chamber with the NOS like a crossfire injector or will it be added in the inlet tract?? Also been thinking what happens when you get combustion and u have an injector sitting in there?? wouldnt it ruin the injector and or the rest of the system surely from pressure, heat etc

trev uve got designs for just about everything
ive almost worked out the spec of the wallet magnet, bewarned

I've just realised that I didn't cover the Semi Sealed Induction System (SSIS), that I mentioned at the start of the thread, as well as failing to cover the Timed Pulse Injection subject adequately.

Dealing with the first last;

1) To achieve Timed Pulse injection over the entire range of a high revving engine, a high frequency solenoid will be required but it will also need to flow HUGE amounts of nitrous in a very short period of time, these 2 requirements are in conflict with each other and nothing I'm aware of currently exists to do such a job, which is why I've designed what I believe will be solenoid design that will achieve both goals.
2) As rpm rises, the duration of time available for the solenoid to be open will decrease which would decrease the amount of nitrous flow available at higher rpm, which is the reverse of what we want to achieve.
3) In my design we will take the minimum available open time and set that as a fixed constant, so at least the nitrous flow will stay the same at all rpm rather than diminish.
4) We then add our Revo valve to the outlet of the super Pulsoid and use that to control an increasing flow, either based on time or rpm

That in essence is the TPI system but whilst its a great theory, its going to be a tall order to convert it to a usable product, however we can do it already on a low revving, low power engine such as the Smart and that's what I intend to do next.

Now the SSIS.

Assuming that we are starting from where we are now and forgetting the ICI & TPI options (which both have MAJOR obstacles to overcome, before they could become a workable system), my SSIS design looks like the easiest and possibly the best next step forward in nitrous technology.

One of the main limiting factors of where we are now, is reversion of the flow due to nitrous bouncing off the closed valve and in the extreme case off the piston itself when the valve is open. My Pro-series discharge tube design helps to reduce this problem but at some elevated level of nitrous flow, it is inevitable that reversion will happen.

My SSIS design works on the basis that it can't be prevented (with current technology), so we have to work with it and the best way to do that is to stop the reversing flow escaping from the induction system. This would require a turbo type plenum chamber with the facility to seal off the air intake, when reversion is at such a level as to have effectively stopped the airflow anyway.
This technique would allow us to keep adding nitrous and fuel, without it escaping to atmosphere and would result in (if desired), a positive pressure (to any desired level) in the induction system.

I have 2 designs to achieve such an arrangement;
1) A very simple mechanical/pressure device
2) A sophisticated electronic system

Both have their advantages and the first option is already in existence and has been working on engines for almost 100 years, so I have no doubt that will work for my application.

The 2nd option is also a certainty but will require some advanced electronics to control the system.

Until recently I had no intention of doing anything other than making working prototypes of all these concepts, just to prove;
1) They can be done
2) They would produce better results
3) That my nitrous technology is the most advanced in the world

However, I've had recent interest from a third party, that leads me to think I may have to do more than just make prototypes for my own satisfaction, so you may see one or more of these radical concepts on the market in the not too distant future.

Would it be possible to have the nitrous and extra fuel delivered to each cylinder via a second injector that is fired in tandem with the normal fuel injector (on an EFI engine) so you get what you want when you need it for each pot?
On a carb engine, would it not be possible to have the injector fired via a crank trigger or similar??

I know this would mean a lot of machine shop work for each specific engine. But what a glorious system it would be huh??

FWIW

im sure i asked you this before trev, but you were chasing the 5% at the time
is it possible using revo technology to run an engine on purely the nos system with a full time closed inlet?
OR like you said run an open inlet and only use the fuel side to run the engine? a revo powered injection system?????
i know compaired to a modern fuel injection system it wouldnt be as flexible
for us with carb powered engines if the level of control and system responce is there it would be an improvement
3d mappable max extreme???

Somehow missed this.

Even when working at JUST fuel injection pressures (30ish psi) your average fuel injectors can't work correctly over the full rpm range and end up flowing constantly rather than in time with rpm, even if they start off that way, so there is currently NO WAY you could achieve the desired result at nitrous pressures with current products.

However, my Timed Pulse Injection system (as described in a previous post) is virtually what you described in theory, but will ACTUALLY WORK in practice.

My Semi Sealed Induction System (as described in a previous post) is the best way to utilise the available air (when it is available) AND when needed make the best of running nitrous only, when reversion stops normal air flow.
The REVO isn't essential for this option as it would work (although not quite as well), using pulsed technology.

so how would you compensate for the lack of external air when the manifold is sealed?
and how do you know when to seal the manifold?

just thinking here, would it be possible to keep an engine running at idle on a carb and only use the nos system to "power" it?

Very feasable with a Dry EFI system and DBW throttle...

Correct and I also have an even simpler option for carb applications.

While your on the forum, where's your manifold???

and??????????????

so the throttle plate is closed when the amount of nitrous overwhelms what the engine can suck in?
at this point wouldnt there no pressure difference across the carb then?? so effectively the fuel supply is shut off too?
closing the throttle plate then would make no difference on air/fuel intake through the carb, only preventing nitrous from escaping
and then in essense SUPERCHARGING THE NOS!!!!!!!!
as there would be more nos in the manifold than the engine could suck in at 1bar atmospheric
the extra pressure that the nitrous trapped in a sealed manifold creates, a nos forced induction system

I WANNA RUN A SUPERCHARGED 2BAR NOS SYSTEM!!!

were talking revo levels of control here arnt we??
id just heard a sound like ghostbuster proton pack being started up...............trevs warming up the wallet magnet