NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

First there were single stage fixed hit kits but these either meant you had to limit yourself to a relatively small increase that you could use early in the run and make do with the fact that you could add more further down the track, or you had to wait till later in the run and use a larger power increase. Either way a vehicle could go much quicker if these fixed hit kits could be "enhanced".

Next came 2 stage, followed by 3 stage and even 4 stage kits, which meant you could start with a small increase very early in the run, followed by "steps" in power as the engine/vehicle can handle each successive step, the further you travel down the track.
The problems with these systems are;
1) The time between each stage being activated is limited to the fixed level of power that's activated at the start of that period, when in fact it could handle a small (but significant) increase for each fraction of a second of that time.
2) Each stage is a "step" in power with the potential to cause problems, in particular destabilising the vehicle.
3) Each stage increases the weight and complexity as well as increasing the obstructions in the air flow.
4) Each time a stage is activated it causes a drop in nitrous pressure which adversely affects the mixture of each stage in use
5) Each stage must be very accurately set up, otherwise the discrepancies stack up each time a stage is activated.
6) Each stage adds more current load which can cause other electrical components to suffer (weak spark for example) or you need to run a bigger batter than normal, adding even more weight

Then came pulsed progressive systems, which can be likened to multiple staged systems with electronic control. Such a system (designed and manufactured correctly), can start delivering power at a relatively low level and progress relatively smoothly to a much higher power level, without any "steps" in the change of power delivery. With the comprehensive features the Max Extreme offers, linked to our precise and responsive Pulsoids its inevitable to achieve performance results that exceed staged systems.

The problems with pulsed systems are;
1) There is a limited upper and lower range that even Pulsoids will pulse at, which sets a limit to what can be achieved with such a system, however in most cases this still exceeds staged systems.
2) Generic solenoids were not designed to be pulsed, therefore unless Pulsoids are used the results will be less than ideal.
3) Pulsing 2 solenoids that are working at different pressures (nitrous @ 1,000 psi - fuel @ less than 100 psi), usually results in uneven delivery of fuel and nitrous until the system goes full open, thankfully those using a WON system don't have that concern.
4) Pulsing solenoids that are not designed to be pulsed and that are working at unequal pressures is inviting problems.
5) Although the "average" of the power delivered to (and made by) the engine may be near to the intended power level, unfortunately it can often be nowhere near it when using any brand other than WON.
6) Furthermore the first few engine firing cycles that are fed with the "pulse" of nitrous and fuel are actually being "hit" by the "full" power of the jets and as a consequence the engine and trans components are subjected to higher stresses than is desirable but once again WON have minimised that issue due to the high frequency that Pulsoids run at.
7) As a consequence of point 6 the vehicle (depending on system design & type), can respond as though it was being fed by a large fixed hit, especially if the kit is designed and/or fitted incorrectly.
8) Despite the initial average power being relatively low, timing adjustments have to be permanently altered over all the engine cycles, to avoid those first cycles experiencing problems, even though most cycles (at low percentage levels) don't receive any nitrous at all.

Which leads me to my Smooooth (REVO) progressive which has NONE of the problems listed above for any of the previous methods of adding nitrous to an engine.
This new system will be able to either start from zero power or start at a given power level and progress at any desired rate to any desired elevated higher power level smoooothly, without any steps, pulses or limitations.

In summary
No steps
No pulses
No solenoid failures

No excessive engine loads
No excessive timing adjustments required
No traction problems

Smooooth "genuine" power resulting in NO LIMITS performance.

I want that one!

Sign us all up for one of them, please.

Adrian

Join the queue please

Dave will be pleased to learn that the first generation of the Smooooth (REVO) system will be an "add on" to an existing system, so no need to change a great deal.
It will just be a matter of removing the jets/holder and fitting the new variable valves.

Since Dave Bailey's the ONLY person to have experienced the Smooooth system in action, he knows better than anyone else, that upgrading to this new concept is a guarantee of quicker times.

I hope to have the Revo system ready by the end of March but that may be a bit optimistic and may end up being the end of April.

The price has yet to be set but we'll be aiming to keep them at a reasonable price bearing in mind we have to recover 1,000s of hours of R&D work before we'll make any profit on them.

excellent
fuel too? or is that later?

LOL - Yes even you - LOL - I know it was the clutch

Yes fuel as well!!!!

They are going to be available 'wet' and 'dry' at roughly the same time although as 'dry' only needs half the compoents we'll be getting them out to fill the orders for 'dry' systems first.

The 1st person to get the 'dry' system will be Brad for his Super Street Busa as I'm confident he will wipe the floor with even the turbo opposition.

You'll probably get the 2nd option and Johnny Barb gets them 3rd.

My thinking behind this is that I believe the bikes will benefit more than the cars from this technology and Johnny needs 16 of them, so he's going to deprive a lot of other customers for a while and I didn't want you and Brad having to wait till we turned out more than 16 units.

Yes 16 of those please, Man 16 even sounds large..lol We are going to build a second manifold for this setup when I get back from over. Wont be long now till the big crossing

Hi Johnny,

I've designed these with you in mind and as a consequence you'll only need 8 (combined fuel and nitrous) units and I don't think you'll need another manifold as I've designed them to replace the SS pipes that connect the Pulsoids to the Venom injectors, so it should just be a matter of SS tubes out and Smoooooth progressives in.

By the way we've been testing the flow through the Venom injectors in the configuration you have them and it's produced some "interesting" results.

How many days now Johnny?

See you soon

so we'll be able to use our existing pulsoids for the 1st gen smooth systems? would i be able to use my existing maximiser as well, or is the control system completely different?

Yes you'll be able to use all your existing hardware BUT the software for the system by necessity uses different technology. However we are working on trying to offer a board upgrade and if we can't do that they we'll take existing Maximisers in part X against the new version.

By the way the new version is a FULL rework and will have "numerous" new features that will be worth a full upgrade.

It most certainly will

Trev,

This question is not meant to be stupid but a curious inquiry about the smooooth system ! Here goes.... you said in a previous post :

"This new system will be able to either start from zero power or start at a given power level and progress at any desired rate to any desired elevated higher power level smoooothly, without any steps or pulses."

In summary
No steps
No pulses
No solenoid failures
No excessive engine loads
No excessive timing adjustments
No traction problems
Smooooth "genuine" power resulting in NO LIMITS performance.

My question is....
Do the fuel and nitrous pressures stay fixed or will the system change/adjust them during nitrous delivery ?

Thanks,
John

I think your question is more accurate if you use the term "flow" rather than "pressure".

Flow is what we meter and can be altered by a number of factors, of which pressure is one.

The answer is that the ultimate version of this system will have a closed loop control over the mixture ratio and I have a number of ways to achieve that.

The first units may or may not have one of these features but they will be upgradeable should it be required.

However as long as the first systems are used with constant delivery pressures (as all systems should be for optimum performance), the delivery of fuel and nitrous should be at least as well matched as in a fixed hit (if not better) and far better than in a pulsed system.

Trev,

Thanks for the correction, yes flow would be the correct term because that was going to lead into my next question ! I assume that using the closed loop system would eliminate the use of jets seeing that it would control flow.. if that is correct then thats bad asssssss. I await any of your corrections !!!!

Thanks,
John

The new system doesn't use "jets", at least not of the current designs.

It has a variable size outlet orifice/jet, which is how the flow is varied and the new "outlet orifice/jet" is nothing like existing solenoid outlet seats or jets, so yes it's bad assssss new concept/design as you put it.

Hello Trevor.

You once highlighted that pulsing the nitrous solenoid helps keeping the bottle pressure constant (for longer).
- Does the smooth extraction give the nitrous inside the bottle more/enough time to "recover"?
- Is the new smooth control system necessary to compensate for the loss of this beneficial effect of pulsed nitrous injection?
- Or is this effect on bottle pressure not of such decisive importance?

i have it on good authority that this system will never work..the design of the decaffinator valve is faulty, and if ya dont use a roller type muffler bearing, your exhaust will crush down from the flow vortex..

this is from a well known american nitrous person , and builder of jr dragsters..

Funny that as we already have a Pro Mod bike using the system which is producing EXTREMELY GOOD results.

Some people are just TOO STUPID to know how STUPID they are.