NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

The prototype Black Widow Spider plate has been fitted to a customers car which will be tested and raced this weekend.

The car is far from being a high end performer but should serve to give some indications as to the potential the system offers.

I hope to be back late Monday or Tuesday with a report of how it performed.


Since producing the prototype we have improved the design 10 fold and one of the most recent new features that will give HUGE advantages over ALL other plates, is that the delivery to each cylinder can now be individually jetted.

We are so confident in the benefits this revolutionary plate design offers, that the first of the components has gone into production today (before we even have any track results), with the remaining parts soon to follow.

Trev,
Will you be doing these in both 4150 and 4050 designs?
Thanks

Yes this new design is very flexible and we're aiming to offer them to suit not only the 2 carb types you mention but also to suit almost any other application.

Unlike other recently designed plates the actual nitrous/fuel elements are not an integral part of the plate, they are stand alone components so they can be fitted to a wide range of applications.

At this point we had a problem with the site and lost a weeks posts.

A condensed version of what happened the past weekend was that we improved Ron's times from 10.8s to 9.92s using the Spider plate for the first time on just 200 bhp jets and set very soft on the progressive. This was despite a number of limiting factors that were carried over from the previous US generic Fogger style kit.


NOW SKIP A WEEK


I went back to Shakespears country raceway today and unfortunately it turned out to be the 2nd attempt at proving the worth of the Spider plate that's been thwarted by poor track conditions/weather and consequently lack of track time.

Due to a re-route of the bottle to solenoid pipe we decided to start over from 200 hp jets again and this produced a 10.2 sec run on very soft settings. We then cranked it up a bit and set it to build almost instantly just to see if the track could hold it. Unfortunately it was too much and the car spun through a very short 1st gear and part way through 2nd but still produced a 10.003, which was less than a 1/10 off the previous PB the week before last.

Just as with the last meet we fitted the 400 hp jets (on very soft settings) and readied ourselves for a low 9 or high 8 only to be denied the opportunity, this time as a consequence of an oil down preventing any more runs.

We did however get one important piece of information from today that we couldn't be sure of after the last meet, as the plugs were at best questionable.
The plug colours after each run this week proved the Spider was producing PERFECT distribution as they were all IDENTICAL and was one of my main aims because that is something few (if any) other plates can achieve.

It's 2 weeks to the final of Street Eliminator and I'd hoped that Ron would be able to go there with an 8 under his belt but it looks like he's having to go there not knowing how quick his car will run with a more serious shot from the Spider.

Absolutely sensational news. How have you been able to tune individual cylinders with the Spider design?

From the previous prototype video, I can't work out how you've done it!

We haven't 'tuned' individual cylinders as such, what we did was design the Spider to deliver evenly in the first place. No other plate (or even DP kits from other companies) can achieve that. Furthermore the effects of reversion (on DP kits) and uneven distribution of nitrous on all other plates disrupt the n/a flow and cause that airflow to be uneven. By preventing reversion and delivering even nitrous the end result is the engine runs as it should - EVENLY!!

Having said all that we do have the option to include individual cylinder jetting on the production units.

We'll be testing this design concept on another application here shortly and should be another winner. Great job on another TRUE innovative product that maximizes performance as ususal!

drivers view of the weekend.

Run 1
n/a just to check the car and we had no traction to the point of the rear end stepping out so I came of the power.we were the 3rd car down on an unprepped track 11.8
Run2
decided to start on 200 jets due to the number of rwyb cars 50% of the line build time 3secs first gear felt flat 10.2 @ 136
run 3
75% of the line with 1.5 build time and a passenger 10.4 @ 134
run 4
all in on the line 10.00 @ 136 big wheel spin

so we were very close to our pb of 9.92 @ 137 which was on the same track similar weather with out the prep on the track at this meet and as Trev said the plugs were close to perfect compared to fat on the previous set up and gas consumption went down from 2lb to 1.5lb a run.

I also found that after the burn out in the first 2 gas runs I was pulling from reverse straight into second something that I shouldn't be able to do.so I better adjust the linkage on the shifter.

so although we never got a npb we got very close and everyone came away happy with the results.

Hi Ron,

I think you were only happy because you want a few more runs under your belt in the high 9 low 10 bracket to get used to running approx. 1 sec quicker, before I propel you into the high 8s low 9s.

I'll be well annoyed if we get prevented from giving it a full (current Pulsoid) power pass at the next meet and then my aim is to fix Ron up with some high flow Pulsoids so we can max out the Spider in the region of 700 hp.

I hope you've get a neck brace sorted and a change of underwear at hand for that meet Ron, oh and you may need a bigger chute.

bring it on mate your not scareing me yet.

I'm the same we better get some track time next time out as I know most of the class as well as others are watching our progress

WOW!!!!! I AM FREAKING SPEECHLESS!!!!!!! I HAVE NEVER EVEN DREAMED UP SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!

I thought you'd like it, everyone else who has seen it has had a similar reaction but now you've got everyone else wondering what you're talking about, because only a few select people have seen the pics of the Spider plate that I emailled you.

It's very tempting to post them on the open forum but I'm doing my best to hold back till we're closer to having the production units finished.

I hate to upset everyone but actually having it in my dirty mits it took me a week to fit as all my crew wanted to look at it before it went on, and trev after our chat on the phone tonight I was right you are mad. but if we have a break in the weather we will give your idea a dam good go. hears looking forward to another npb.
thanks to trev and the new spider system we are about 1-2 years ahead of were I thought we would be.

Thanks for that Ron, I'm just happy to be of assistance to your race program.

I'm CERTAIN that you'll run between a low 9 and a mid 8 with the 400 hp jets (still on soft settings) and a low 8 might be on the cards with the 500 shot (assuming good track/weather conditions and some track time), so I hope I'll be able to make it on Sunday, because I'll be gutted that I wasn't there to witness the runs.

Good luck in my absence and hope to see you on Sunday.

You can all certainly listen to Ron as he's the ONLY person to have seen AND used the prototype and like I said the production units are going to be far batter, so if the CAD pic of the production units don't do the actual prototype justice, then what more can I say.




Funny you should say that Jim, here's a reminder of the advantages over other plates followed by the advantages over conventional direct port systems, but before I do that, I thought I'd just give you a bit of the story of how the Spider came to be.

It all started a few years ago with a design very similar to the Speedtech plate (but without the flaws!), however after seeing how close the designs 'appeared', I decided that I'd probably be accused of copying theirs if I stuck to my design, so I had to start over and that's when I came up with the Spider.

The advantages over other plates are;

1) ANTI-REVERSION nozzle location.
2) EQUAL distribution to all cylinders.
3) DIRECTIONAL discharge which can be adjusted to optimise the exact point of injection relative to the port.
4) INDIVIDUAL cylinder jetting.
5) MAXIMUM liquid nitrous density.
6) MINIMUM flow losses.


The advantages over conventional direct port systems;

1) ANTI-FUEL FREEZING nozzle design.
2) ANTI-REVERSION nozzle location.
3) EVEN distribution to all cylinders.
4) DIRECTIONAL discharge which can be adjusted to optimise the exact point of injection relative to the port.
5) SHORT delivery pipes.
6) NO OBSTRUCTION to port airflow.
7) MAXIMUM liquid nitrous density.
9) MINIMUM flow losses.

There may be more but for now these should do the job and as Jim stated, the Spider plate is better than ANYTHING EVER and these 2 lists of advantages prove it.

trev will we be sending our intakes to denny or johnny to correctly aim the spider or is that something that can be done in the garage

The 'aiming' of the Spider legs is what I'd call 'a bonus feature'.

Ron Haslett who has used the prototype which was VERY ROUGHLY drilled and badly aligned, didn't align the legs with his ports yet he still produced a 'good' result, so even as we supply them, I expect them to run 'good' numbers.

We've made the legs from malleable brass, so they can be contoured reasonably easily by hand, so anyone who wants to benefit from the 'bonus feature' should be able to make the appropriate modifications themselves.

I also consider the individual metering jets as being a 'bonus feature', because the prototype produced even plug colours just using our standard Pulsoid outlet metering jet location and distribution on the production Spiders is even better.

Here we go guys, the first of the production spider plates that will soon be going out to Ron (along with his Max Extreme) in return for his confidence in our products.

http://www.noswizard.com/media/catalog/ ... ate2_1.jpg

Without question this is the most advanced plate design in the world!!

Hi Trev

Wowwwwwwwwwww

I want to mount that on the OUTSIDE of my Porsche ...not just in my plenum

Just for looks

Hmmmm...I just had a strange thought....

You are going to HATE this Trev lol....

How about ...for the REAL posers.....mounting that on TOP of a bonnet...as a purge kit...if you see what I mean....

All 16 of those nozzles....blowing Nitrous or CO2...in colour of course..with LED Lasers to light the plumes.....

Hmm.....2 sets of nozzles....means 2 colours

I told you I was a little strange...lol

But id bet someone will do it sooner or later lol

All the best Brett

Actually that triggered off an even stranger thought, how about having it spin round whilst purging!!!

Looks like we make a right pair of 'strange' people.

I'm sure you're right though about someone having me do it.

One thing I am considering, is making a rule that I'll only supply them to customers who will have a large window milled into the manifold to accept a piece of perspex, so everyone can see the beauty of this creation.

Just a thought Trev.
Have you considered doing one with 4 outlets to suit guys (and girls) that are running dual 4 barrels. That way they would use 2 spiders.
Also on a similar tangent, how about to suit split dominators (like Johnny's).

How about a clear resin manifold.
That way you could see the perfectly distributed nitrous all the way the the port!

Or am I just getting silly now.

Hey Trev, what size holes are you putting in those plates?

Truly amazed. Aint she pretty?

Nige,

We've already done a twin 4 way Spider for a customer (Ivey on our forum) and we're offering this new concept for a range of applications.
For now we have 2 options for 4 way systems and we use whichever is most suitable for each specific application.

This concept is so flexible that it can even be used on some OEM injected vehicles as Ivey's is but can involve (as Ivey's did) some major machining work to the intake and a great deal of time/effort.

The central element can be a stand alone component that can be fitted to a wide range of plate types, so if you have or can make a plate to fit whatever you have, then a Spider can be made to fit it.

We're even working on using the central element without a plate to extend the range of vehicles this concept can be used on.

I love the idea of a transparent manifold - THAT WOULD BLOW AWAY the guys that watch rather than race.

This concept could be made to fit on split Dommis but we have an even better option that uses most of the same concepts as the Spider but it has even more benefits than the Spider.

Johnny Barb, James Duncan (both in ProMod) and a growing number of other high end US racers are switching to this latest concept for this season.



John,

Just in case I haven't answered your question adequately above, since the central Spider element is seperate from the plate (although we will also be making them as an integral unit some time in the future), we can offer offer the Spider to suit any size plate.