NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Hi All,

Trevor invited me to join the forum as I have just had a WON progressive system fitted by them.

The system comprises the Max extreme race controller, the X-10 pulsoids, 2 x 11lb bottles, fuel pressure regulator, Maxflow valves etc, etc.

The car as it stood before the system was fitted was running between 360bhp and 380bhp, depending on the tuning settings and although it was already a decently rapid motor (best before nitrous was 12.901@110.9mph) I wanted that little bit extra.

I contacted Anthony for just fitting as I had initially bought the system with just the one 11lb bottle, but when I arrived I just looked at the boot and thought how lovely it would look balanced up with 2 bottles
Here is a pic of how the boot install looks now, initially Anthony fitted the bottles side by side (as I had asked for), but aesthetically I thought I'd try this set-up as the bottles are easier to get at and lift out.



The first outing of the car was just two days after the install and was GTI International at Bruntingthorpe. Not the best of surfaces and it was around 28 celcius on the day. I've run on the 1/4 mile strip there before and the strip is generally upwards of half a second slower than a prepared strip, so I wasn't expecting to set a personal best there. As it turned out I won the MKV class for the Saturday (wasn't there Sunday) with a 13.15 Run and a 4.91 0-60mph dash. Second place was 0.6 seconds slower, so the potential was there. The initial advice I had been given (by people not on here) was to back my timing off and so I reduced the normal timing down and as a benchmark I did a run without nitrous which was a 13.9

Part 2....

The system at GTI International ran with 75bhp nozzles and ran okay on the day. Subsequently I have been fine tuning (re - fiddling about with ) the ECU tuning map I have (REVO stage 2+, not to be mistaken with the WON REVO system ) and where I was bringing in the nitrous, how fast and in what gears. Since then I've had the chance to do a few runs using my Racelogic Performance Box (RPB) which is a GPS based system that is accurate to 0.1mph and to 4" in a qtr mile.

The results have been impressive to say the least.

Shonky 0-60 as I was being careful off the line as it was very slightly uphill and I have to have the traction control off for the NOS. Also the rear speaker is in along with the added weight of the NOS system means the car is almost the same weight as if it had the rear seats in instead! NOS kicks in at around 50mph, but a picture tells a thousand words.....



The figures below represent a comparison between my best times without the NOS on my stage 2+map and with the NOS.

St2+ NOS
20-40 1.5 1.6
30-50 1.4 1.5
40-60 1.7 1.4
50-70 2.0 1.3
60-80 2.3 1.7
70-90 2.9 2.1
80-100 3.2 2.5

30-70 3.4 2.8
60-100 5.5 4.2

As you can see the main difference is in the 60-100mph and is truly ballistic, with a decent launch 0-100mph in the 8's is on the cards. If I can get a 4.6 to 60mph again (best time before the NOS), then with a 4.2 60-100mph it would produce an 8.8 0-100mph

A 4.2 second 60-100mph is faster than.....

Ferrari F50 at 4.3
Porsche 996 GT2 at 4.5
Ariel Atom Supercharged at 4.5
Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera at 4.6
Lamborghini Murchielago LP640 at 4.6
Nissan GT-R Spec-V at 4.8 seconds
Audi R8 V10 at 4.8

(Figures taken from torque stats.)

You get the picture


Before the performance box reset I noticed that the standing 1/8 mile speed was 97.7mph and the 1/4 mile was 14.0 after backing off and dropping back down to 74.5mph. Putting that into perspective, that 1/8th terminal is faster than a stock MKV GTI 1/4 mile terminal

Seriously looking forward to the next Pod day. Interesting times ahead

Part 3...

Managed to do some VCDS logs from the recent runs and all the signs are that the car is working perfectly normally.

4th gear run without nitrous showed absolutely no timing pull

4th gear run with nitrous showed a maximum timing pull of -3, which I have been told is normal for NOS and within the adaptability range of the car.

Peak air mass on NOS is 279.47 at 6200rpm and is basically the same as without nitrous.

Interestingly the intake air temps without NOS showed a rise from 32 to 37 celcius as the revs climbed, wheras with nos the readings went from 34 to 24 celcius as the revs climbed.

Absolutely no misfires throughout the whole time of the logs.

Rail pressure stayed within an acceptable range

Boost rose to a max of 1.7bar and tailed off to 1.24bar at 6400rpm with NOS and virtually identical figures without NOS.

Overall the logs show that the engine isn't suffering with the NOS online and I'm very happy with the outcome.

Need to do a few more logs yet to look at AFR and EGT's, but the signs are good.

These are pics of my most recent runs and even though it was slightly damp the car got to 110mph in 11.1 and on the same run did the 1/4 mile in 13.0 seconds and that was after backing off and getting a terminal of 99.1mph. I guess the private drive isn't long enough now.

Part 4.....

So, where do I go from here?

Well, I like to set myself the odd stretch goal or two and so here's the list of where I would like the car to be in the next few months.

i) A sub 9 second 0-100mph
ii) A 4.5 second to 60mph
iii) An official 12.5 second 1/4 mile (or less!)
iv) A terminal of 118mph or over.

I don't know if I dare try the 100bhp jets yet as I am on stock internals and stock DSG transmission (with REVO stage 2 remap). Having said that the car is running perfectly well without any complaints on the 75bhp jets, so I may try them and lower the RPM dropout for the NOS

Finally for this intro part 4 I would like to say a huuuuuge thankyou to all the guys at WON for an excellent piece of kit and aftersales support and info that has been brilliant - keep up the good work

Thanks for taking the time to post your results and I'm sure they will be of interest to a good number of forum members here.

My pleasure Trevor

Okay then, yesterday I took a brave pill and added to 100bhp shot nozzles. Altered the controller to bring in the NOS a little "gentler" and then did a few logs followed by a quick run to 100mph.

OMG

9.2 seconds for a 0-100mph off a 5.2 0-60mph.

This kit really is really amazing but I'm going to need my own nitrous supply at this rate.

Just for your information, one of the main driving forces behind my constant efforts to improve system efficiency, is to maximise the length of time a bottle lasts and you'll be pleased to know that we've been very successful at that. If you had a US kit your bottle would last in the region of 25% less and produce in the region of 25% less performance from that consumption.

Our Pro Series improve on that (by an unknown degree) and the latest additional Max features will improve both those figures by at least another 10% and the REVO will improve them by another 10%.

Just think yourself lucky that you chose WON.

I know exactly how you feel - why do you think I'm still at it 35 years since I first felt the nitrous effect.

It is like a drug - the more you have, the more you want

BTW - My name is John and it has been 4 hours since my last hit.................of N2O

Most definitely a different kind of rush and very addictive
I had forced abstinance for 5 months, I thought I'd broken the habit, but now I'm back

Update...

qtr mile...1st stab.

Had to go a little further afield to a longer,flatter, straighter strip of tarmac to get a qtr mile time up. Only had 3 attempts, and the 2nd one was the best. Trevor phoned me and told me off about not using the nitrous in 1st gear and gave me a few setting ideas to use nitrous off the line instead of revving the engine and using the turbo - definitely worked and is more stable a run off the line. Bare in mind that this was with the subwoofer, spare tyre etc still in the car and just the rear seats out as normal and not a prepared dragstrip.

Increments to 100mph.

next increments

This gave a best of...

Resulting in...

AWESOME!!!!!

Fantastic john, BUT how about wet road, clutch slipping and car full of tesco shoppin

Now you're getting there Ted. 15s has got to be a breeze in good conditions.

cheers trev... oh and the minimax was on a soft settings in the dry ive used 60% start time and its felt way quicker then today

hey trev, just look how close already im getting to this twin turbo beast ....

Certainly closing in on that but I've just noticed the terminal speed in the 1/4 was SLOWER than the 1/8 and MUCH lower than would be expected for such an ET, so it looks to me like you either backed off well before the 1/4 or you lost a hell of a lot of power in the 2nd 1/8th, which means that wasn't a true representation even in those conditions.

in 2 words trev "clutch slip" its very bad and of corse i backed off the moment i felt it so watch out when i havent got one hand tied behind my back, god i bet i have the boys on here quaking in there boots lol

Car is going in for a dyno session this afternnon, so hopefully I'll have some figures for the upgrade

It is a Dyno Dynamics roller and so the figures will be on the low/accurate side, so I'll be happy with over 440bhp and 440lbft.

Controller is set on memory two with a 2 second ramp up from 3300rpm to 6500rpm and from 35% to 100% of the nozzles.

The nozzles are 200 and 120 sizes, which should give 100bhpish. Last time I was on these rollers the car did 339.8bhp, but I've done a few small performance mods besides the nitrous since then.

Update...

Went to have a dyno run with the nitrous today. The guys were very helpful and one of the operators has nitrous for his car, so I was in safe hands. It was a Dyno Dynamics "pessimistic" set of rollers at RS Tuning in Leeds. I chose their dyno specifically as they are just about the lowest (as most consider) that are near enough to me who I trust to dyno it correctly.

So, below is a pic of how they had to strap it down. They said strapping down this way loses 2-3% as it pulls the wheels so hard down into the rollers



Here's the bit you've all been waiting for...



438.7hp and a peak torque of 510 lbft on nitrous
339.8hp and peak torque of 381lbft without nitrous.

The settings are less agressive for the dyno than on the road as the nitrous wasn't even set to start until 3200rpm.

Absolutely no sign of slip on the DSG box and AFR's on nitrous were a solid, held 11.5.

Interesting for me is that my torque on nitrous is as high at 6000rpm as the peak without nitrous. Also I'm making more power at 3500rpm on nitrous than my peak power without.

This is a REALLY impressive modification and it would be interesting to compare it to say, the GT2871R that I was thinking of fitting.

thats a great result......cant get over the torque.....

think i will sell the mini and get a golf.

cheers dave

GREAT torque figures but the power is down from what I'd have expected and I'd bet a substantial amount of money, that it's due to restrictive exhaust flow and that's likely to be the turbo aspect ratio. The same setting on a bigger turbo would make another 50 HP at least.

Another factor is the mixture which is a good degree richer than it should be for optimum power but that's contributed to the huge torque figures and it's WELL SAFE. Since you'll seldom use the peak HP figure (or at least for any length of time) and you'll actually be using the torque, the richer safer setting is the way to go.

john what clutch do you have ? something ive just had fitted in leeds funny enough... surely its not a volks stock one