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 Post subject: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:10 pm 
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I'm not happy with the cost of running big shots of nitrous anymore :(

If I were to fit a turbo or even twin turbo's on the V8 would this be a good starting point to gain extra hp before I add nos. Or maybe a belt driven super charger would to the same job for a lot less ??

I would ideally like to keep my carb system and not have to worry about modifiying my induction system to sync in with a turbo setup.

If I fitted a belt driven blower I could bolt my carb on top and go play on the strip??

Do we have any comments or advice re the forced induction upgrade to my Rover V8 engine ??

I think this will be the way forward for my car.. More air being rammed in with less nos being used??

Comments please... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:17 pm 
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heres my comment ,less nitrous boy :shock: you better stand in the corner then go and see headmaster trevor ... :mrgreen: lol

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:24 pm 
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teddybare wrote:
heres my comment ,less nitrous boy :shock: you better stand in the corner then go and see headmaster trevor ... :mrgreen: lol



But if I can make the old V8 work harder before I stick some gas in. The gas should yield a better Bang per LB???

Just a thought..

I'm not sure just how well a Rover V8 will respond to forced induction with nitrous on top?

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:13 am 
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Here's a story for you Perry.

The editor of Street Machine magazine wanted to promote the Sprintex supercharger to help a friend of his who had just started selling them, although he didn't tell me that at the time. He decided the best way to do that was to organise a back to back comparison test against a turbo car and a nitrous car.

BTW the Sprintex blower is a screw type blower which unless things have changed, is the MOST efficient blower type on the market.

By luck or coincidence the guy owned a heavily modified SD1 with a Sprintex fitted and I was just starting to make some headway with nitrous on my STOCK SD1, although I was still having the occasional melt down due to my lack of knowledge back then.

The editor contacted me saying he was organising this 3 way shoot out and was I interested in participating. It was a close thing, as it was touch and go as to whether or not I'd sort the problems out that I'd been experiencing but I took a gamble and agreed.

By the time the shootout was arranged the turbo had blown up, so it was down to a straight duel between me and the blower and I was STILL unsure about the reliability I could maintain.

I decided to take my Dad with me and we drove over 150 miles down to the test track in the car, to be met by the blown car being removed from a trailer and to discover that the owner/driver was a FAMOUS Top Fuel car driver, so I thought I was in for a beating, as I'd no idea what such a blower could do and expected to be outclassed on the driving front.

My car was fitted with 2 stages of 150 HP in fixed hits, so I was hoping I had enough in hand.

The magazine had only been able to obtain one set of timing gear, so the cars had to be run one at a time, so I was asked if I wanted to go first or 2nd. I decided to go 2nd on the basis that, IF the blown car wasn't as quick as mine, I could ease up on the power (reducing the risk of failure) and win with reliability and as it turned out this was a VERY WISE move.

The blown car was then put through its paces up to half a dozen times to achieve the best results and I was then presented with what those were. I managed to stifle my LAUGHTER until the other guys were out of ear shot but then cracked up (to the astonishment of my Dad), before explaining why.

It turned out that even with a PROFESSIONAL driver, a manual gearbox, MUCH better tires, MUCH better engine, various other performance enhancing mods and half a dozen attempts, his car was SLOWER than mine was on JUST ONE STAGE.
Consequently I increased the fuelling to both stages and did the run JUST using ONE STAGE (apart from a short burst of the 2nd stage in 2nd gear ONLY) and recorded times that were OVER ONE SECOND QUICKER over all measured distances and speeds.

I was then asked if I wanted to do a 2nd run but I declined on the basis that, there was no point rubbing the guys nose in it and left the track arriving home trouble free a few hours later. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

A few years later I encountered another SD1 with a Sprintex fitted at a RWYB when I was running a 2.6 SD1. I went over to the guy and asked him if he'd like a race and he said "Yeh that'd be great as I'm sick of being blitzed by these Big Yank motors". He asked what mine was and I said it was JUST a 2.6, which obviously made him think he was going to walk it - SUCKER!!!! Needless to say he was STUNNED when I blitzed him even worse than the Yank motors were doing and came over accusing me of lying about what engine I had. LOL

In conclusion; Blowers are 'FINE' and they work well WITH nitrous but on equal terms a blower will never stand a chance against a GOOD nitrous system. ;)

BTW I still have a very worn copy of the Street Machine magazine where the shootout was featured. :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:07 am 
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Hi Pel :)

When I was in Top Fuel we obviously used Blowers,, with Nitromethane of course and they were BIG ones lol.... think 7 to 9 gallons of Nitromethane/Methanol mix PER run....(1/4)

Sooo...when I wanted a little extra power for my 928 V8 i considered a blower. as there are various companies in the US who do kits for the 928s.

I decided against a blower for two reasons..

1, I was bored with them to be honest....and not a cheap kit at around £7K ...

2, I knew that they were limited in the amount of hp they could add for a road car, without breaking cranks, cams etc on a weekly basis.

So i decided on Nitrous and obviously went to the best Nitrous company in the world :) WON

There are a few 928s in the US and a couple in the UK with blowers and roughly speaking they are getting around 100 to 130 hp extra from the blower....

One of the UK ones is the 5.4 ltr Blown one that USED to hold the UK 1/4 mile record for 928s...

Want to guess who holds it now lol :) :)

And I ran that record run with the car set up for Top Speed runs...i.e wrong tyres. wrong diff, wrong wheels etc...

And it was EASY :)

The point I am making is that in my opinion going for a blower plus Nitrous will actually give you LESS power and a LOT more breakages as a blower is NOT smooth IN ANY WAY OR FORM... oh and a good rebuilt blower isnt cheap either...

So I wouldnt :)

But your choice obviously....

All the best Brett :)

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-UK 928 1/4 Mile and Top Speed Record Holder- Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:00 pm 
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There are more and more TVRs running blowers mainly supplied and fitted by a company called SC Power.

The results are good enough to make all the customers very happy. On the road and circuit these cars perform very well.
It must be noted that the 4.6 and 5 ltr engines in these cars are already running efficient EFI systems, ported heads etc.
Power figures rise from around 270-300+ to 400+ with some cars boosted to figures around 450.

I have yet to see one of the SC cars add nitrous. Would be interesting :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:24 am 
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If the cost of gas is reducing the amount of fun I have in my free time I need to reduce that cost eh?

Is a turbo / blower + some nitrous going to be slower than nitrous only ??

I thought a forced induction setup made more power from X shot of nitrous than a N/A setup??

Given the amount of gas I use on a pass, the cost of a blower system will pay for itself in less than 2 years..

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:29 am 
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It seems to me you have an itch that must be scratched Perry.
If you have the inclination and can get the parts etc all set up on a budget then why not?

I intend to either fit a blower or a pair of turbos in a year or 2. My engines built with a nice low 8:1 Cr so its asking for it really.
I am keeping an eye on the progress of a few interesting projects before i decide

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:07 am 
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Regardless of nitrous usage, I've yet to see or hear of a blown or turbo'd Rover V8 engine (with or without nitrous) run as quick as WON only.

The nearest anyone came to that was a guy called Nick Mann back in the late 70's in his Morris Minor and he narrowly avoided me beating him for the full strip (had for the first 3/4) in my STOCK SD1.

I'm not saying it isn't possible and I believe some other guy put a lot of money in to some turbo'd V8 Rover powered something or other, that was 'claimed' would be quicker but as far as I'm aware it was never put down the track.

History is a better indicator than theory sometime.

As regards recovering your costs in 2 years, I think you'll find there are other costs bedise the blower itself that will extend that substantially, from the reports I hear from guys who run blowers.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:39 am 
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The reason that people dont get good results from rover v8s on turbos and superchargers + nirtous compared to just nitrous IMHO is down to the fact they arent doing it properly.


Nitrous and turbo is a great combination in my book, here is one of trev's turbo + nitrous customers (not a rover v8, a subaru):

Image

Thing is though, thats a PROPER turbo setup on mappable management etc, I just dont think you are going to get yours working well enough on just a suckthrough carb setup to really see the gains.

If your fuelling isnt spot on (likewise the ignition) you are pissing in the wind IMHO, with the nitrous only you are controlling the fuelling at the same time very accurately as its relative to the nitrous injected not to what the engine is doing, with boost as well you need to manage it all very accurately.

You'll spend quite a few grand getting a decent turbo setup working, so it depends how often you use the car on the gas as to at what point that becomes financially viable.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:51 am 
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X 2 on all the above.

How are you doing Chip? :yes: I'm guessing you didn't get my recent email request for forum stats?

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:37 pm 
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Im doing ok thanks Trev, just being kept a bit busier than I would like!


With regards to your email:

Got it,
read it,
marked it as unread in my email box to remind me I still need to deal with it,
havent had a chance to do so yet

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:03 pm 
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That's OK then (apart from the excess work) and no rush for the info. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:35 pm 
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Noswizard wrote:
Regardless of nitrous usage, I've yet to see or hear of a blown or turbo'd Rover V8 engine (with or without nitrous) run as quick as WON only.

The nearest anyone came to that was a guy called Nick Mann back in the late 70's in his Morris Minor and he narrowly avoided me beating him for the full strip (had for the first 3/4) in my STOCK SD1.

I'm not saying it isn't possible and I believe some other guy put a lot of money in to some turbo'd V8 Rover powered something or other, that was 'claimed' would be quicker but as far as I'm aware it was never put down the track.

History is a better indicator than theory sometime.

As regards recovering your costs in 2 years, I think you'll find there are other costs bedise the blower itself that will extend that substantially, from the reports I hear from guys who run blowers.



Can you give me some info on the reports from the blower guys please Trev??
I need to research all the avenues before I make a choice..

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:41 am 
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I don't know ANYONE 'CURRENTLY' using a blower on a Rover but ALL those I've known of in the past have achieved NOTHING that I'm aware of.

We do have a small number of other blown engined customers who have all achieved very good results when adding WON but as none of them have tried JUST WON as a direct comparrison, we can't draw any conclusions about whether the results would be better on WON alone or not.

My expectation (based on accumulated experience), is that WON alone will produce quicker ET's in most blower applications.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:58 am 
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Just to add...
coincidentally a fellow TVR owner has just had the first rolling road results back from his little old Rover V8.

It would have hit 500 bhp if they hadnt stopped well before the limiter!
More impressive was the torque curve with over 450lb from less than 3000 rpm.

Its a 5.4 Supercharged btw.

I still reckon i can take him at the pod this Summer tho :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:44 pm 
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This sounds like it could be a hoot I reckon. I already know what my engine will do on a 300 shot of WON. Maybe I'll do some testing with a blower to see how far that can get me without gas. If I could get an extra 140hp with a blower running sensible boost of around 8-10psi. I should be able to top that up with a sniff of the good stuff to get my engine back to where it was with a fraction of the gas eh??
I can stick a GMC 4/71 blower system on the car for free to do some R&D (I called in a few favours) to see how this would work :)

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:13 pm 
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dbv8 wrote:
I still reckon i can take him at the pod this Summer tho :lol:

If you don't it will be the first time a blown Rover engined car has a beat a WON assisted Rover engined car, so don't let the team down!!!! :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Go Go Derek :headbang: :headbang:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:26 pm 
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:omgrofl:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:41 pm 
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dbv8 wrote:
Just to add...
coincidentally a fellow TVR owner has just had the first rolling road results back from his little old Rover V8.

It would have hit 500 bhp if they hadnt stopped well before the limiter!
More impressive was the torque curve with over 450lb from less than 3000 rpm.

Its a 5.4 Supercharged btw.

I still reckon i can take him at the pod this Summer tho :lol:




Has your mate got any vids of the dyno etc??

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:46 pm 
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See the thread here Perry.
All serious stuff.... http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topi ... &nmt=Power curve oh no not another one ?, comments ?

or a twin turbo conversion i am watching with interest...
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topi ... 4&nmt=Twin Turbo conversion

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:46 pm 
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I've spoken to my chum and the 4/71 blower setup will be with me in 3 weeks and will be sorted so it will drop straight onto my Rover V8 inc pulleys etc.
I now need to think about how best to add nitrous in between the carb and the top of the blower??

Should I stick with my quad crossfire plate or would I be better off using my old spray bar plate to spray nitrous along the length of the turbines on the top of the blower??

Or should I go with a nitrous plate under the blower??

Or maybe try a DP setup under the blower ??

Any suggestions chaps?? :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:48 pm 
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Work in progress for my RV8 experiment :)

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo upgrade or supercharger upgrade ???
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:34 pm 
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mgbv8 wrote:
Work in progress for my RV8 experiment :)

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that looks the nuts all the best with it :yes:


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