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 Post subject: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:10 pm 
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Hi guys,

i need some opinions on what to do.

My 5.0 V12:
pro
-its a V12
-likes Nitrous or any other tunhing
-Strongest BMW v12 i´ve seen is a 5.4 Single Turbo with 1200hp

contra
-tuning = all custom parts
(ok, there are parts available. you can change the very mild cam to a mild cam oder buy strocker kits for 20.000+)
-Nitrous or FI is the only way to see affordable 400hp+
-clutch and gearbox: if you need a stronger gear it needs custom parts
-sooner or later you´ll hurt the engine
-if you hurt the engine you better get a used one


454 BBC
pro
-many cui
-cheap tuning parts
-easy 482cui for $2000 all new forged parts from Eagle or Scat
-top end, complete set for $3000 to $5000 eg. Brodix (600hp+ here i come)
-Gearbox range: buy a 3 speed Lenco and never look back

contra
-big and heavy
-if you are serious it´ll eat money as well


I could sell some spare parts (3-4000€) and would spend about 6 to 8000 on a BBC and see 600+hp NA.
I also have 4 pairs 150hp Pulsoids. I have a Gearbox good for 1000hp.
I have a injection system and am able to get a custom intake for cheap.

Your Pros and Cons for the BBC? I´m sure i´m missing something.
Do you have real world hp- and $-numbers?
I have a 600hp Nitrous system and would like to use it.



Greetings Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:53 pm 
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Hi :)

Considering which country you are in, why not a Porsche 928 like mine..... 4.5 or 4.7 (mine) or 5.0 or 5.4 (Gts)

Engines are an almost bulletproof V8 and the auto boxes are good for a lot more than they are rated for (600 hp)

I wouldnt advise a manual (only around 15% of all 928s are manuals) as I doubt the twin plate clutch will take the hp you are thinking of....

If you can get hold of a GTS, they have a standard top speed of 178....even the oldest 928s are 150 plus....

The electronics are very easy to get round as none of this modern extremely complicated stuff....

Parts are easy to get hold of, etc etc...

All the best Brett :)

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:01 am 
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Location: Sydney,Australia
BBC 454. Readily available, plenty of aftermarket parts, the U.S dollar is shithouse, so now is the time to buy cheap parts, plenty of gear box options too. Why not a 572ci? :twisted:

Paul

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:03 am 
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Hi Brett,

i can´t warm up to Porsche. Nice Cars and all but not my thing.



Hi Paul,

500+ cui would be nice but this is a std deck block and rod length is going to be a problem.
Even with stock stroke...
This is also a big contra i think.

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:05 am 
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If it`s mainly dragracing you`re after Thomas then the BBC is a winner handsdown.
If the bores of the block are free of core shift you can eventually have it bored from 4.25 to 4.31 inch. With blockfiller you can take it even further.
Even with the stock 9.8 inch deck height you can plonk in a 4.25 inch stroker crank with 6.358 inch rods. This is a popular combo as the big ends of the rods will just clear the lobes of the cams.
The rod/stroke ratio (1.492:1) will be compromised somewhat, but that will be offset by the 1.31 inch compression height pistons so there will be enough material between the ringlands for large nitrous shots.
You might have a talk with the Engelage brothers in Bremen as they are heavily involved in professional dragracing.
Their engines are used in several classes, Super gas, super pro, competition eliminator etc. with succes.

Paul.

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:19 am 
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Hi Paul,

yes, that would be for drag race.
And looks like a build Th400 would do the job.
Compared to the V12 the BB with Al Heads would still add 50kg on the front. Not a good thing but due to the Oil pan i can move the engine back easy.

Next week we will take the engine appart and see whats going on.

Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:55 am 
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I'd stick with the BMW V12 and just puts LOADS of gas in to it.

Even the stock internals should be able to handle enough to run some impressive times, as long as the timing is set safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:41 pm 
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Damn...

I thought you wuld also say :"Go BIG BLOCK and buy 4 pairs 250hp Pulsoids!!"

BB is an easy way for sub 10th but i also realy love the V12.
It´s like 50/50 and than again it´s 110% V12, V12, V12....!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:18 pm 
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LOL - you should have known better!!!!

I like being different and I think you do as well, so the V12 is the only option. :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:31 am 
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You know what I'd go for Thomas :D

Trevor, in addition to safe timing, wouldn't we need Direct port/semi pro system? I'm thinking 3 pairs of pulsoids each pair feeding 4 runners.
With the above the BMW v12 can easily handle 200 - 250 shot.

This is my second year running nitrous on my V12. 150 shot WITH performance chips and C16 in standalone, to be honest I lost count how many bottles I went through. Never had a problem, great results everytime and engine runs happier after nitrous use. Engine takes 150 shot with ease.

For the past couple months all I've been thinking about is emailing Trev to order the 175 shot jets :D

Cheers
Hadi


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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:04 pm 
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viperrt10 wrote:
You know what I'd go for Thomas :D
Because you've already done it!!! :yes:

Trevor, in addition to safe timing, wouldn't we need Direct port/semi pro system? I'm thinking 3 pairs of pulsoids each pair feeding 4 runners.
That would certainly be a wise move but even on your set up, I'm pretty sure you could push much higher than you're at and still be perfectly reliable.

With the above the BMW v12 can easily handle 200 - 250 shot.
I'd say it should be good for DOUBLE that amount.

This is my second year running nitrous on my V12. 150 shot WITH performance chips and C16 in standalone, to be honest I lost count how many bottles I went through. Never had a problem, great results everytime and engine runs happier after nitrous use. Engine takes 150 shot with ease.
Exactly how it should be and I bet there's nobody with a US brand kit who could say the same thing. ;)

For the past couple months all I've been thinking about is emailing Trev to order the 175 shot jets :D
If you've no sign of problems, and you follow my normal test & progress procedures, there's no reason why 175 or even 200 should be a problem. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Decisions: BMW V12 vs. BBC 454 - pro and contra
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:37 pm 
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Well,

guess i´ll stick to the V12.

But anyway i will sell some gearboxes (two or three) and rear ends (two or three) and comfort myself with a Lenco 3speed.


Thomas

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