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 Post subject: Now that's what you call a GOOD nitrous system!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:07 pm 
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This is the new set up for Steve Patemans V8 Street car.


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According to the UK nitrous "experts" that race in Steves class he can now expect to go slower or suffer engine failure (or both). Strange ideas considering he has had problems with his plate system and almost any kit would be better than that. No doubt that'll be the excuse they use when he runs much quicker than ever before, rather than acknowledge the superiority of my products.

At least there are a couple of smart guys out there in that class that have seen the inherent advantages of my products. Anyone who doesn't follow suit will just get left behind. :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:27 pm 
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Very creative! Who came up with the idea and did the plumbing? At least know one can complain about your nylon lines on this one. LOL


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:33 pm 
I know the conventional solenoid based system is due to become obsolete but have you considered producing the solenoid body with an integral 4 way distribution block for applications like this ?

I don't need telling how good the smoothy is, but i'm afraid the solenoid is far from dead as far as the mass market is concerned, we all know how long it's going to take for the smoothy to become accepted whatever the results and i can see a much "cleaner" solution to the "V8 install" selling well.
Granted it'll cost you the single jet, but although you won't have the resolution you'll still have the advantages of the jet placement.

Just thinking aloud, thats all.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:54 pm 
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That makes understanding your PM much easier :twisted:
Will be following Steve's progress with this new setup, no need for a plate for the dommie now :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:15 pm 
Four27 wrote:
That makes understanding your PM much easier :twisted:
Will be following Steve's progress with this new setup, no need for a plate for the dommie now :mrgreen:

You weren't trying to understand one of Trev's "concepts" without pictures were you ?
Instant brain fade !
Even when you're privy to the various parts, the way he puts two and two together sometimes defies description :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:07 pm 
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Denny,

You should know the answer to that question without asking!!!!

There is very little that leaves my premises that isn't based on my original concepts, I then leave it to my boys to carry out that concept.

The thing is that there is very little about "the look" of this set up that's new, just the use of SS tube rather than nylon.
The shower heads were originally designed by Brock Davidson (a very smart American) but Mike Thomas of Nitrous Solutions actually had these ones made and supplied them to Steve.

What I've done is rework the previous set up that used Foggers and large bore pipes which had sharp bends and uneven pipe lengths. These have been replaced with Crossfire injectors and small bore smooth flow SS tubes. I've also reworked the shower heads so they do a much better job than the original design.

The most stupid thing about the pro American nitrous kit brigade is that they probably realise that if they fitted a set of exhaust headers that had different length runners and 90 degree bends, they'd realise that such a set of headers wouldn't work as well as those they use. However they can't seem to understand that the same principles apply to ANYTHING that has to flow through a pipe.

The pipework on this system reminds me of a minature version of an F1 car exhaust system which obviously has to be to the optimum design for flow.

The main work is inside the components as we've flow matched the full system to achieve optimum performance.

I've used the Shower heads because they were part of the previous system and in some respects are superior in design to my own distribution blocks when manufactured correctly (although my current design does still have one or two advantages).
I've also used them because I'm in the process of adding them to my product range as an additional option for some applications.


Loopy,

You wouldn't believe how many times I've considered integrating the distribution block in the Pulsoid body (which would have been quite easy to do) but as the VAST majority of my sales are single point systems, it would have meant I'd have had to blank off far more than would be sold for DP systems, so not a viable option unless sales numbers increase for DP systems.

Don't be so sure it'll take a long time for the Smooooth system to get accepted, as I've already got a number of US companies and TOP racers chomping at the bit to buy them in serious numbers (once I can get them into production).

Furthermore I have a design that will be cheaper to manufacture and I'm confident it will be possible to have that design sell at a competative price with the cheap solenoid garbage kits that are currently flooding the UK market (just pleased I'm currently getting so much growth in the USA).


Four27,

When I sent you the PM it was before I decided just ONE system would be adequate for Steve and at that time I was talking about a new plate design that I've designed. I have 2 options that are superior to mass production U.S. plates and I intend to carry out some more R&D before launching them in the U.S. market.

However this set up is vastly superior to any plate (in most respects) and if you want the best results this is what you want.

With regard to results on Steves car, well I can assure you he's going to make an even bigger leap forward than Ian did at his 1st event (assuming the new bits gremlins stay away) and I'm confident Ian will be up there with him as it will be his 2nd event and we'll have implemented a few improvements based on what we learned from the 1st one. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:14 pm 
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What is really stupid is that if the pipe work was nylon it would look just the same but the idiot brigade would be acting like a bunch of Hyenas.

The best of it is Ian Hook was supplied the SS tube for a similar layout but he's decided to stick to the "set up" nylon pipes because they do the job so much better than hard pipes, especially when changing jets.

What more can I say???? :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:50 am 
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Not to bad Trev. I think you need that distribution block for sure. It would be nice if you would post a picture of Johns intake AKA Beyond that we did using all Highpower componets. It sure would have been alot easier on me with the shower heads then highpower all in block.

As your US markets grows it will be needed. If you made those in house John and I may want to look at them for his intake. I actually like the nylon line that you sell and I personaly like the look. It adds color in my opinion as well as performance.

Where are the jets located ? I noticed that the shower heads seem to have jet holders on the output side....

One thing I do like about the SS line no support brackets are needed for the Pulsoids.

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Last edited by Racer704 on Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:13 am 
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You have to blame me on this one Johnny. I finally got the design to my CNC guy and hope to have answers and numbers in a week or two on making these specifically for us.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:18 am 
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Thats fine Denny, John has had some family health issues that has caused him to put the race car on that back burner and i am sure we all can understand that but he is getting close to using the system so let us know please.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:12 am 
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Noswizard wrote:
The most stupid thing about the pro American nitrous kit brigade is that they probably realise that if they fitted a set of exhaust headers that had different length runners and 90 degree bends, they'd realise that such a set of headers wouldn't work as well as those they use. However they can't seem to understand that the same principles apply to ANYTHING that has to flow through a pipe.


The Header analogy would make a lot of sense aside from the jets restricting the flow at the end. I'd be willing to bet my headers with all 90 degree bends would flow just the same as they currently do under 1000PSI if they were restricted down to 1/4" at the end. You really think the shape of the bend restricts "flow" of a line with a .108" inner diameter when the jet at the end is .042"? Even if it did, how does this matter when the system is flowed and tuned for that given configuration?

Perhaps i'm just totally wrong here but i'd love to hear some input.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:25 am 
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awesome!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:39 am 
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Simple test:-
Take a fogger, using a large bored adapter and a Jet (any large-ish size will do) screw it directly into a solenoid outlet and flow test. Now do the same but with a 16" SS pipe (with 3 or 4 added 90 degree bends) in between the solenoid and fogger and re-test.
IN FACT, I will carry out this test and if it requires videoing to prove it then so be it.
Second to this, your systems are jetted at the fogger and ours at the solenoid, so that changes things again.
Anyway, we'll see what the test concludes.
Votes anyone?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:02 am 
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The Hog wrote:
Noswizard wrote:
The most stupid thing about the pro American nitrous kit brigade is that they probably realise that if they fitted a set of exhaust headers that had different length runners and 90 degree bends, they'd realise that such a set of headers wouldn't work as well as those they use. However they can't seem to understand that the same principles apply to ANYTHING that has to flow through a pipe.


The Header analogy would make a lot of sense aside from the jets restricting the flow at the end. I'd be willing to bet my headers with all 90 degree bends would flow just the same as they currently do under 1000PSI if they were restricted down to 1/4" at the end. You really think the shape of the bend restricts "flow" of a line with a .108" inner diameter when the jet at the end is .042"? Even if it did, how does this matter when the system is flowed and tuned for that given configuration?

Perhaps i'm just totally wrong here but i'd love to hear some input.


Welcome to the board.

And its clear from your post you are no fool as thats all good logical thinking :D

However on a highpower system the jet is in the solenoid, so the restriction is at the front end of it not the back end of it.


subtle difference between american kits and the uk ones, I personally can see the logic in both trains of thought.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:03 am 
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Ant, sorry mate, hadnt noticed you had already pointed out the difference in location of the jet.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:52 am 
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Welcome to my board Hog.

It's a well known fact that any media at any pressure flows most efficiently through straight pipes and that any bends cause losses.

To what degree those losses are depends on a number of variables but I can assure you we've carried out numerous tests that prove my point to be correct, specifically on nitrous systems.

One factor you need to keep in mind with nitrous that is different to my analogy with the exhaust system is that we are dealing with a compressed liquid gas which means we have numerous factors to consider when compared with exhaust flow. However the principle is the same, matched pipe length with free flowing gentle bends will produce better, more efficient results than systems with uneven pipe lengths and sharp tight bends.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:46 pm 
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Now here's another good example of how many different yet good ways there are to skin a cat. :mrgreen:

Image

Image

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Image

I'd like to post pics of Ian Hooks set up but at present the good stuff is hidden behind the NOS gear (for ease of fitting) but we may be doing something about that in the near future. The method we used for Ian is yet another good yet different style on the same theme of EFFICIENT FLOW and GREAT PULSE RESPONSE!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:55 pm 
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Johnny,

As requested here is Beyonds set up and I think you did a fine job of it. ;)
The reason for posting pics of Steve's set up was that it was using SS tube - which in the eyes of the UK's Pro US gang should be considered better than the cheap and nasty stuff most of them currently use.

The swoopy bends will probably be too much for them to grasp and no doubt they'll rubbish the principle but then they'll the ones who have nitrous distribution problems not my guys.

The jets in Steves system are at the normal place - the Pulsoid outlets.
I'd have liked to have done the same for Ian but I wasn't sure how much height we'd have so I went for fitting the jets at the distribution block outlets for Ian but we may change that at some time.

Mind you none of these come near to your own set up;

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:50 pm 
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Solenoids mounted direct to the runners is pure engine porn IMHO :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:57 pm 
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With their own rail for the fuel solenoids 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:55 pm 
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Gareth, stop it, you are turning me on, lol


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:55 pm 
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I totally agree there is more then one way to skin a cat. Thats why I think important to show everyone these installs to help them with there own so they dont lay awake at night trying to decide how to do it..lol

Or is it just me who lies awake at night trying to make something better...hmm I need to get a life :lol: Oh thanks for showing the big motor as come this winter its going to be transformed into a dry injection system...hmmm 8 less pulsoids and no carbs...can you say goodbye 15 pounds... :mrgreen: Better contoll of the fuel..

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:11 pm 
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chip wrote:
Gareth, stop it, you are turning me on, lol


Suits you sir!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:53 pm 
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chip wrote:
However on a highpower system the jet is in the solenoid, so the restriction is at the front end of it not the back end of it.

subtle difference between american kits and the uk ones, I personally can see the logic in both trains of thought.


I've not seen any high power systems like that, personally (high power being over 600HP worth of spray). Seen plenty of people running 6's with jets at the end, never even seen a system with the jet in front? Interesting concept though. With that in mind I really see the NEED to have symmetrical/nice radiused bends and equal length lines.

Are there any actual dyno results showing one way to be supperior to the other? I mean real tests, not just rhetoric?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:42 pm 
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Hi Hog,

Just a bit of confusion there - LOL

Chip means my company HIGHPOWER Systems International Limited not high power as in the results of big doses of nitrous. - LOL ;)

You wont have seen any American systems using my jetting concept as it's unique to my systems.

I'm glad you can now see the importance of the uniformity in the pipe work due to the jet location but I can assure you the same requirements apply no matter where the jets are located.

I've never been a big fan of measuring HP or torque from a dyno because real world numbers like 1/4 times are more important and they are dependant on far more than either.

However I carried out double back to back acceleration measurements on a test vehicle using a dyno to measure speed against time and the results were SERIOUSLY impressive!!!

Now these results are unlikely to apply to all combinations across the board BUT on this particular vehicle combination the results were as follows;

The test was carried out with every variable maintained at a constant (permanent nitrogen boost, engine temp maintained constant, etc.). The vehicle was held steady at a fixed speed for 3 seconds before the throttle was instantly activated (also activating the nitrous system). The Dyno recorded rear wheel speed and time to a predetermined upper speed limit.

During this test I changed every conceivable component of the nitrous system (one component at a time) and carried out back to back double tests. Most changes made little difference except one. With the nitrous metering jet located at the Fogger the vehicle recorded a 30% slower time than it took when the same jet was located at the solenoid outlet.
This test was carried out back to back twice and on both tests with the jet at the solenoid it went 30% quicker than when the jet was located at the Fogger.

To be honest the result surprised me as I was expecting it to be the other way round. I have numerous theories about why this was the outcome and I'm confident they are correct (even though I can't prove them at this stage as I don't have the high tech equipment to monitor the contents of the pipes.

Every vehicle that I've ever converted from US components to mine has achieved better results using less nitrous, which indicates to me that my theories are right and that my components (including my unique jet location) produce far more efficient results than US made parts.

I hope your mind is open enough to accept this information as the world is full of people with closed minds who can't accept that the majority might have got it wrong and that a single individual like myself could have got it right.

Regards

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