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 Post subject: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:20 pm 
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I'm thinking about buying a secondhand NOS kit, it's a wet setup and is going for £300 inc delivery.
Seems a good price considering the cost of new kits and I'm told it's been updated recently.

I'm just wondering about how to best use it with a 1.4 TDI engine.

I hear it's best for me to run it as a dry set up at first, which should be possible by blanking off the fuel side?

I'm located on the south coast (East Sussex) and I'm having trouble finding support and people to answer my questions.

Also, as for remapping, are there any specialised base maps available?
I'm unsure of what way to go about remapping my ecu;
I'm told WON do a remap?
But thought perhaps it's best to get a remap on a rolling road for my engine
Or the cheaper option of getting a tried and tested general map for my engine?
I've been told it's possible to go from 75HP/150N.m to 100HP/250N.m with a remap alone, and I'd be happy with a 25 shot* and interested in pushing the gearbox's limits if I can find a spare one and trying for a 50shot*. Not looking for monster gains as it seems to be untested waters with putting power through this engine and gearbox.
* Am I right in assuming 25/50 shot means a 25/50HP increase? :redface:
Also curious about activation, when is the best and worst times to engage NOS.
I read on here that WON were selling a remap which enriches the mixture above 95% throttle and when the NOS is armed, would that >95% throttle still enrich when the NOS wasn't armed?

Are there any other management or other specialised stuff going that would be useful for my desired power gains or is it just a simple case of a dry setup and a little extra fuel when NOS is being used.

Really would like some clarification and some face to face assistance.
Any help/support would be great.


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:18 am 
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Location: Huntingdon trying to make a Skoda fast.
Hi Kai

With a diesel dont use a wet kit!

By the time you have added the bits to turn the kit to a diesel kit it will possibly be cheaper to purchase new.

What car is it on?

I use on my diesel (Skoda Octavia PD130) a venom injector into the inlet manifold, Pulsoid and switch with no controller as I am only using about a 25 shot for giggles. You would probably be ok up to 60 without a controller. I only use a 5lb bottle so it doesnt take up too much room in the boot (and so my girlfriend doesnt notice Im using nitrous - she just thinks the car is very fast sometimes)

If you need more fuel, either see if you can get a "smoky" remap or use a water methanol injection system.
A remap is good the generics are OK the extra money for a proper full map is worth the money if you want to go fast! :twisted:

We have used Propane to good effect for extra power and fuel however this was where our over rev issues happened. Other diesel tuners have also gone off propane for this reason.

Gearbox wise - a 50 shot is unlikely to strain the box, your clutch is more likely to quit first. If you want to push the power up then you will want some sort of controller. We are just using a minimax as we dont need any other features and it kept the cost down. The minimax allowed us to more gently apply the power saving the box and clutch.

We have fitted a helix 4 puk clutch as well as a lighter flywheel and high force pressure plate so our issue will be gearbox at some point.

A basic kit isnt too expensive but if you want to start pushing the engine it WILL get expensive quickly as you will need bigger turbos and other items that are all more serious money.


Hope this helps!

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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Thanks for your reply, it was a help.
It's a 3 Cylinder 1.4 TDI engine, it's a blank page when it comes to tuning it. - The extent I've seen is either a simple remap or someone was aiming for 300BHP with a massive turbo and intercooler. But from what I remember, he spent a fortune and uprated everything before pushing the stock engines limits.

I mentioned the gearbox as I've been told they struggle with 125. - As for clutch, I have no idea if the bellhousing/gearbox would allow for any of the larger displacement clutches, but I highly doubt they make a performance clutch for the 1.4.

I've always been a fan of a 1.9 PD130's, I know their potential. - But the 3 Cyl version is a totally different animal, similar thermo values I'd guess, but engine vibration/balance is totally different. I can't seem to find a concrete base of attack without paying skyhigh for specialist custom parts. No one knows their limits, I assume they're weaker than your variation. It's a shame they're so expensive as I'd like to take one apart.
No idea how much the crank is supported, no idea how long any power would last on the bottom end.

I was thinking of just rigging the windscreen bottle/motor to a misting nozzle by the stock side mount intercooler to lower intake temps. - Any ideas which fluids would be best for temperature reduction, while not corroding the intercooler materials.


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:15 am 
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Location: Huntingdon trying to make a Skoda fast.
For misting in water with a washer bottle you would need to inject before the turbo unless you use a pump like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130141408948?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_873wt_872 And injecting into the intake isnt good for the turbo as washer jets have huge droplets! You will need to get a proper jet with the pump above but these can come from a crop sprayer possibly - need to look at the mist pattern. This sort of thing could be got from a farm machinery place.

If you use a washer motor, boost will bubble out the washer bottle! :rofl: - washer pump motors are not very strong despite what the jets may look like.
You can use the washer bottle as a reservoir to feed a better pump though and a 20% Methanol mix is good. It also will clean the screen should you need it.
It doesnt actually drop the EGT as you would expect but it does cool the charge temp and the Methanol is extra fuel!

If you go for more fuel and a little nitrous this way it will give you an increase and you can go up to 50% Methanol but this must be done carefully to make sure you are not going to over stress anything.

Dropping off the sump of your engine would probably be quite easy to take a look at the crank and support. Any Skoda stealer would sell you the sump gasket for your car - possibly £5?

I have been interested in the 1.4 tdi too - they do seem to be a very strong little engine in typical VW style.
As for a clutch, all performance clutches are expensive but http://www.helix-autosport.com/performance-clutches/skoda/ this crowd took a brand new standard clutch and remanufactured it. I got a 3 puk race clutch for my 1.3 Skoda Rapid! It doesnt slip and it isnt too bad on the road. Ive taken the engine from 54bhp to 90 bhp before I turn on the nitrous and the box has taken it as well after I welded in third gear. Also the clutch doesnt slip any more! A brand new standard clutch lasted 1 launch and slipped mid track when using a 75 shot of nitrous!

We were told the gearbox would struggle with our increase in the Fabia but so far it has been fine - and survived my brothers lead foot on the road too - a set of fronts just lasted him 3000 miles so you get the idea how much of the time he is spinning his wheels!

So what car is the engine in? obviously a VAG and the Fabia/polo platform?

Round here Odd cars R Us! :omgrofl:

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13.81 at 107 mph Skoda Fabia vRS
17.1 @ 82 mph Skoda Octavia PD130 ESTATE!
Fixing issues one support call at a time.......
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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Haha I literally meant using the washer bottle to spray the intercooler on the outside, so it disperses heat quicker!

Good call on removing the sump, I'm really not sure why I didn't think of that. Blond moment!

I'm not worried about horsepower with the clutch, it's the torque, it'll be putting out 195 standard and 250 with a remap. I know the standard clutch can take that. . . and there's a similar variation of this engine with 230 as standard, but that clutch doesn't work with the engine I'll be using. - Oh and it'll be in a Lupo or Arosa. - Which is the modified Polo platform.
I don't own one yet, but they're the same car, depends what comes along when I sell my Corsa, which has a C20XE REDTOP engine. . . Had NOS before I bought it and apparently worked great.


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:00 am 
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Location: Huntingdon trying to make a Skoda fast.
Ah cool :lol:
Spraying the outside of the intercooler doesnt do that much unfortunately - we tried it using a chilled water methanol mix but you have to make sure its dry before taking it up the track - unless you have been thrashing hard for a LOOOONG time in one sessiom and this normally isnt the case. It is best to put on a front mounted intercooler if you can. Additional cooling on the intercooler had no effect on our 1/4 mile time at all.

WHen I Mention horsepower - I am assuming the usual diesel thing - torque is usually more than the horsepower sort of a 2 to 1 ratio (ISH) so yes you are right - I dint explain very well :( apologies.

The torque jumps quite dramatically on nitrous. From the results on the dyno we have had it goes to 2.5:1 ish. Other diesels on the web seem to go the same way. (Check out Diesel Power Mag from the US!) :shock:

Maybe just a cover plate with better clamping would possibly be all you need? I know Jabba Sport at Peterborough managed to provide us with an organic plate and higher clamp force clutch to fit as standard. They may be able to help with the 1.4.

The Arosa may be the car as the Seats generally are a little lighter than the other VAG offerings and already turned up a little when compared as standard. Must admit I was looking more at using that engine in something completely different!

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13.81 at 107 mph Skoda Fabia vRS
17.1 @ 82 mph Skoda Octavia PD130 ESTATE!
Fixing issues one support call at a time.......
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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:04 am 
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I was leaning towards the Arosa, as their chassis is supposed to be taught in comparison.
And funny you should mention the engine in something different. . . the whole purpose of buying the car and using it, is to run it as a test bed for future developments, I want to know the limits of the engine an drive train and to know how to get the best from the engine. . . And run the chassis into the ground till it's not viable to keep on the road and fit the engine into a classic Mini.

I don't know how much you know of Mini's but it's not hard to get their weight down to 600-650kg, and 100hp/250N.m is more than enough for a light car, with a 50 shot ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Location: Huntingdon trying to make a Skoda fast.
I have run an old classic mini and think it would be a great addition to one! But I was thinking of one in my rear engine skoda - starts at 650kg before removing any weight!

For me that would give me a mid mounted rwd platform - so less issues with grip off the line.

keep us posted on what you do!

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14.4083 at 92.70mph Skoda Rapid 136 - Steve West
13.81 at 107 mph Skoda Fabia vRS
17.1 @ 82 mph Skoda Octavia PD130 ESTATE!
Fixing issues one support call at a time.......
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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Sounds good Rapid! - Got any build threads anywhere?
I think that kinda engine would be perfect for Mid-Rear. . . Shouldn't be too twitchy given the power output, unless you're hitting NOS full lock! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:42 pm
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Location: denmark københavn
hi :)

Good to see that VW engines have blank spots in tuning also.. :-)

I run a fiat 1.3 turbo diesel i was having the same problems..
they said that the panda gearbox would only take what the factory stock engine would produce (70hp and 145Nm)
Only problem was that the guys saying this was only guessing it would not take any power because of the redused Nm and smaller gearbox used in the panda.. (now running uprated turbo,injectors,turbo boost,intercooler,clutch,airfilter,exhaust)

I have run nitrous with good results.. as for clutch.. yah the standard unit is crap.. but found 1 company that sold a more powerfull unit: CG motorsports uk.. ONLY ONE AT THE TIME!


well back to your engine .. buy a new kit ... take it from someone who bought a used NOS kit.. dont start buying missing parts and stuff.. not worth it..

""water injection does not lower EGT`s? what it dosent??"""


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:32 am 
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Hi Fraguzz -

If its JUST water and your not pushing hard it does lower egt - but with the nitrous, extra diesel and water methanol - It didnt lower it any!
Lowered the inlet temps LOADS giving a much denser charge but.... With the extra that you could get in the cylinder it ended up making no difference (But lots more power)

Hence the statement.........

I suppose yes it does make a difference but it doesnt show on our egt probe

my dodgy car is here Kai http://forum.nitrous-advice.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4438

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14.4083 at 92.70mph Skoda Rapid 136 - Steve West
13.81 at 107 mph Skoda Fabia vRS
17.1 @ 82 mph Skoda Octavia PD130 ESTATE!
Fixing issues one support call at a time.......
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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:01 am 
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thanks.. What does lower egts then?

BTW that 1.4tdi.. 100nm only on a remap sounds wild.. Mine got about 30nm on a chip.. And i had 145 NM stock..


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:20 pm 
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So far I have found that the more power produced, the higher the egt's
I havnt found anything that goes in through the inlet that actually lowers the egt!
Adding water doesnt lower the egt but can help to keep it in check - The difference isnt enough to say it lowers the EGT.

The EGT was lowest when everything was set for minimal smoke and maximum power. (Water Meth, N2O all switched on) and this setup overfuels by a huge amount.
This is running NO nitrous or Water Meth. Diesel ONLY
Image

The soot is still at the start line when he has finished!

I am working on EGT and controlling them - I have an EGT meter fitted - but we have stopped testing for this year. We hope to be building a new diesel project at the end of this year as a new race vehicle / test bed ready for an unveil sometime next year. :omgrofl:

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14.4083 at 92.70mph Skoda Rapid 136 - Steve West
13.81 at 107 mph Skoda Fabia vRS
17.1 @ 82 mph Skoda Octavia PD130 ESTATE!
Fixing issues one support call at a time.......
AKA Blue / IT Rabbit Image


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:24 pm 
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i did hear that a larger exhaust would help.. if it was a restrictor..
my pipe is 2" no cat.. for around 120-150hp..
problem is that my EGT pre turbo is going 630C when i feks acc from 0-170km/h i need to cut the acc to not go past my turbo`s EGT limit (vgt turbo garrett) was told that going past 650C was a no go..?

larger injectors really are a bigger step than another turbo i think.. or nitrous.. so mutch more to go wrong..
and it pulls from lower rpm harder and passes 4000rpm like it was not there lol! and its not even chip tuned yet.. (remap)


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:31 am 
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I think the bigger exhaust actually can increase EGT as the still burning fuel gets out of the cylinder easier therefore raising the EGT

It is along the lines of the old diesels - when they needed more power they took off the exhaust at the manifold then sometimes this went to red hot!

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14.4083 at 92.70mph Skoda Rapid 136 - Steve West
13.81 at 107 mph Skoda Fabia vRS
17.1 @ 82 mph Skoda Octavia PD130 ESTATE!
Fixing issues one support call at a time.......
AKA Blue / IT Rabbit Image


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 Post subject: Re: Suitable for 1.4 TDI?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:49 pm 
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I think EGT is a bigger problem in high boost low rev situations. It would seem to affect bigger trucks mainly when towing loads up longer hills hill. The bigger truck would be 5-8L V8s, lots of fuel and low revs. This would also seem to be when they are smoking heavily. Noticeably the big v8 trucks dealing with this have their turbos further away from the head, unlike European marks. The 2 biggest suggestions are water injection in the intake ( steam power?) and turbo that is water cooled and made for the higher temps. Not stock and very pricey. They do not run N2O for long periods although a lot have it fitted. Thats for the traffic lights not towing.

nice fabia. was it on chip fat that day?

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