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 Post subject: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:35 pm 
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Hi,

I recently decided to join the WON club, and had the dry streetblaster kit and max extreme controller installed to my Peugeot 306 HDI, with less than exciting results. There is an ever so slight increase in power, which can be hardly felt. I've played around with the progression of the NOS, but, still the same result. I believe the HDI engines run very lean, which is evident in the engine not producing puff's of un-burnt black smoke when driven hard.

I was told and believe, I need a re-map with over-fuelling, which will increase the power the NOS will make.

I have a water/meth injection kit which I was going to sell. If I install this, will this act as a fuel and increase the power before my remap?

If so, where is the best point for the water/meth to be injected into the cycle? Next to the NOS jet?

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers guys!

Resh


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:53 pm 
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hi resh
im sure you will get the thumbs up for the water meth ..but im intrigued how much nitrous shot you have used sadly with poor results...my diesel bm also never smoked but even when the extra fuelling box isnt clicked i still get a boost ;) im using 75 shot by the way

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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:06 pm 
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Reshard1977 wrote:
Hi,

I recently decided to join the WON club, and had the dry streetblaster kit and max extreme controller installed to my Peugeot 306 HDI, with less than exciting results. There is an ever so slight increase in power, which can be hardly felt.
Sorry to hear that's been the result but we try to make it as clear as possible that adding nitrous to a diesel does not lead to predictable results as it usually does on petrol engines, as it's ENTIRELY dependent on how much fuel you have available, which is totally outside the control of the nitrous system, unlike the case of a petrol engine.

I've played around with the progression of the NOS, but, still the same result. I believe the HDI engines run very lean, which is evident in the engine not producing puff's of un-burnt black smoke when driven hard.
You'll only ever make worthwhile power increases (from diesel only), if it kicks out black smoke without the nitrous and the more black smoke the better. Now that is less than ideal so we're doing our best to source a unit that will increase fuel delivery ONLY when the nitrous is activated, thus allowing huge amounts of power to be made without black smoke when the nitrous system is not in use and we hope to have such a device available in the near future.

I was told and believe, I need a re-map with over-fuelling, which will increase the power the NOS will make.
Correct and you only need to have it do that when it sees a full throttle signal (and better still if possible), when it see a switch input signal from the nitrous system.

I have a water/meth injection kit which I was going to sell. If I install this, will this act as a fuel and increase the power before my remap?
Yes that should work very well but you'll need to bias the mixture towards the methanol rather than the water as you crank up the power, so start with 50:50 and then progressively reduce the water percentage as you increase the jet size.

If so, where is the best point for the water/meth to be injected into the cycle? Next to the NOS jet?
ANYWHERE within approx. 2" of the nitrous injector should be fine.

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
You got it!!!! :yes:

Cheers guys!

Resh

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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:25 am 
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teddybare wrote:
hi resh
im sure you will get the thumbs up for the water meth ..but im intrigued how much nitrous shot you have used sadly with poor results...my diesel bm also never smoked but even when the extra fuelling box isnt clicked i still get a boost ;) im using 75 shot by the way


Hi Teddybare,

I've started with the 25 shot. The plan was to get the kit installed, then once I'm used to everything and all is running well to move up to the 75 shot and create a more aggressive but smooth shot using the Max Extreme. But, looks like I need to get the fuelling sorted first!

I'll get there soon! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:36 am 
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Hi Noswizard,

thanks for all the help, your star!

Looking forward to the release of the device that increases the fuel when the nos switch is flicked!! :D If you need to supply someone with a free unit for a 306 HDI to test and post the results up, I'd be more than happy to help! ;)

I have a devils own progressive water/meth kit, who recommended a 30/70 bias towards water on diesels. Is it safe to go to 50/50?

I was told that I could use screenwash as a methonal source, but cant find any screenwash that states it containts methonal. Any recommendations?

Thanks again for the advice! I really cant wait to get everything working!! :-)


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:47 am 
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Most companies advise higher water levels to slow down the ultimate failure of the pump, because they are not best suited to the corrosive nature of methanol.

You can start by following the company's advice to see how things go but they never intended the methanol to be used with nitrous, so their advice is not ideal or best suited to high flow rates.

The best and cheapest way to buy methanol is to contact a petrol chemical company or a cleaning company and ask for pure methanol FOR CLEANING (water residue from tanks), because that way you don't pay fuel tax and its cheap (or at least that was the case a few years ago when I last bought some). Other than that you should be able to buy it from a Model shop as its used on ICE powered models.

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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:50 am 
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BTW another option is to use the water system JUST for water and buy the fuel side components of a nitrous system from us to add propane as the extra fuel.

That makes life easier on the water pump, propane is easier (and cheaper) to get hold of and it allows you to jet each independently, to ensure you get the best results.
The only down side is that you have to be VERY ACCURATE & VERY CAREFUL with the mixture and amount of power you make this way but the results (when done correctly) can be AMAZING!!!

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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:29 am 
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you can get 25ltr's of methanol for about £20.

try some companys that supply it for biodiesel.


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:34 am 
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I like the sound of the fuel side components for propane! :D

Does it matter if I add this before or after the remap?

What parts will I need? Cost?

How long will fitting be?

Is the propane stored in a bottle in the boot like the NOS?

Would it be even worth having the water injection after propane and nos?


Sorry for all the Q's!

Getting quite excited now!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:42 am 
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Reshard1977 wrote:
I like the sound of the fuel side components for propane! :D

Does it matter if I add this before or after the remap?
No

What parts will I need? Cost?
Please complete the contacts page with that request and one of my team will get a full reply to you within 24 hours.

How long will fitting be?
Couldn't say for sure but a few hours.

Is the propane stored in a bottle in the boot like the NOS?
Yes and it can even be stored in an identical bottle but it would be cheaper to use the ones they are normally supplied in on an exchange basis but you'd need a special bracket making for that which would eat in to some of the savings and take more time to arrange.

Would it be even worth having the water injection after propane and nos?
You MUST use water with propane you can NOT use propane without water.

Sorry for all the Q's!
No problem

Getting quite excited now!! :D
Glad to hear it.

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30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:00 pm 
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Thanks again!

Contact form completed and sent!

Very much looking forward to getting the details and costs back! :D


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:42 pm
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Location: denmark københavn
hey

glad you came to WON could not be more happy unless it came with a "happy ending" witch it kind of does :lol: :beatstick:

well as far as i came investigating the methanol sources i found out that methanol was banded from nearly all normal products..
but ethanol is the same only with a mixed in flavor so you would have a hard time using it for alcohol production. At my country we have 93% ethanol floating around! this should do the job.. can any confirm this? talked to a guy from labounte motorsports US..

did some experimenting with propane.. didnt go so well.. its the gas right? not the fluid! problem i have no ider how mutch to inject. sorry didnt want to hijack thred.


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Location: denmark københavn
oh almost forgot!! buy the bottleheater !!!! you are kicking your self at cold nights because the pressure is 500-600psi !! tryed other forms.. the best yet is a 10pounds heating blanket 2M x 1M or something 80W sucked bigtime 5 hours and only 150psi increase..

have all of the wiring out of the blanket now around the bottle and still slow as hell does help but BUY the heater!!


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:23 pm 
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fraguzz wrote:
well as far as i came investigating the methanol sources i found out that methanol was banded from nearly all normal products..
but ethanol is the same only with a mixed in flavor so you would have a hard time using it for alcohol production. At my country we have 93% ethanol floating around! this should do the job.. can any confirm this?
I can't say for absolutely certain but in theory at least it should be fine.

did some experimenting with propane.. didnt go so well.. its the gas right? not the fluid!
We've injected it in gaseous and liquid form.

problem i have no ider how mutch to inject.
We can assist with that.

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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:12 pm 
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You say NEVER inject propane without water... why..
if injected in smaller Q it would only act as an increased amount of diesel right?
so if larger amounts are to be used it has to be with water to suppress knock.. right?
because propane has been seen lower EGTs also..

Oh lots of people does not get an hp/nm increase from just adding water/meth 50% mix.. is this normal..
and if the only thing water/meth does is lower the EGT why not just use water..
many people on the net does not get any power from adding meth..

oh my system from you is still running 100% no probs what so ever! nitrous was kid of dead over here... but people is beginning to look into it again because my system/engine isent making any problems! :-) they all think nitrous was =blown engine!


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 Post subject: Re: WON kit on Peugeot 306 HDI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:23 pm 
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fraguzz wrote:
You say NEVER inject propane without water... why..
It's impossible to know at what level water will be ESSENTIAL to prevent detonation, so best to say NEVER inject propane without water. :idea:

if injected in smaller Q it would only act as an increased amount of diesel right?
No - propane can never be considered as an increase in 'diesel' due to its different chemical properties AND the means by which its added to the engine.

so if larger amounts are to be used it has to be with water to suppress knock.. right?
At some point and NOT necessarily at "large" amounts, water will suppress knock.

because propane has been seen lower EGTs also..
For certain amounts and under certain conditions.

Oh lots of people does not get an hp/nm increase from just adding water/meth 50% mix.. is this normal..
and if the only thing water/meth does is lower the EGT why not just use water..
many people on the net does not get any power from adding meth..
An engine will make little to no extra power from adding extra fuel UNLESS there is surplus oxygen available in just the same way that an engine will make little to no extra power from adding extra oxygen UNLESS there is surplus fuel available. It's all about adding the appropriate amounts of BOTH.
If an engine has surplus fuel and more oxygen is added or if it has surplus oxygen and more fuel is added, it WILL make more power.


oh my system from you is still running 100% no probs what so ever! nitrous was kid of dead over here... but people is beginning to look into it again because my system/engine isent making any problems! :-) they all think nitrous was =blown engine!
Very pleased to hear it and what your fellow countrymen need to understand is that the cause of blown engines when using nitrous is due ENTIRELY to US made kits and NOT due to nitrous use itself. :idea:

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