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How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
http://nitrous-advice.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6100		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Noswizard [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
There's a claim being made on another forum that a Busa that was normally aspirated managed to run 239 MPH in a standing start mile, which I'm CERTAIN IS BULLSHIT.

There will be a formula available that will calculate the power needed to achieve that results but I can't find it anywhere so far. If anyone knows either the formula or where I might find it, I'd be extremely grateful if you'd post it for me.
Author:  Brett928S2 [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
Noswizard wrote:
There's a claim being made on another forum that a Busa that was normally aspirated managed to run 239 MPH in a standing start mile, which I'm CERTAIN IS BULLSHIT.

There will be a formula available that will calculate the power needed to achieve that results but I can't find it anywhere so far. If anyone knows either the formula or where I might find it, I'd be extremely grateful if you'd post it for me.


Hi Trev :)

This quote is from a page i have used to calculate for my Top Speed runs...link at bottom of my post...

Let's say we want to increase the top speed of a car by 10% - how much extra power do we need? Increase in power required is related to increase in speed cubed - i.e. to 1.10 cubed = 1.33. So we need about 33% extra power to achieve 10% increase in top speed. Copyright David Baker and Puma Race Engines

Alternatively let's say we tune an engine and achieve 10% extra power - how much will top speed go up by?. Speed is proportional to the cube root of power - i.e. to the cube root of 1.10 = 1.03. So speed will only increase by about 3%.

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/TOPSPEED.htm

All the best Brett :)
Author:  Noswizard [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
Hi Brett,

I'd found that site myself (thanks anyway) but as the issue is related to a bike, I didn't think I could directly apply the 'summarised' rules from it as accurately, because it was aimed at cars.

What I really need is a bike specific site and/or formula, so there is NO DOUBT about the outcome.

The situation is that some dumb ass fool is claiming a guy recorded 239 mph on a Busa and yet my customer has just recorded 232 on a similar Busa. My customer claims to have JUST 250 HP NA and has dyno'd the nitrous at 50% REVO flow and recorded a total of 350 HP.

Now I know for a FACT that it's IMPOSSIBLE to make in excess of 300 HP from ANY NA Busa engine (no matter how big it's hogged out to) and an alternative TOP US tuner is bragging, that he makes the most powerful NA Busa engines in the world at JUST 290 HP, which confirms my thinking.

Therefore if my customer can only run 232 mph with 350 HP it's IMPOSSIBLE for ANY NA Busa to run as quick with under 300 HP, never mind 7 mph faster.

Now you and I know the logic of this but the IDIOTS that I have to convince will spout out yet more BS unless I have CONCLUSIVE PROOF in the form of an indisputable law/formula.

I recently spoke to an 'informed' guy who 'believes' the bike was actually turbo charged, which makes a LOT more sense and I'm just waiting for confirmation of that but I'd also like supporting evidence in the form of a formula, because you know hos stupid some DUMB ASS fools can be, so the more info I have the less they can squirm out of accepting they are WRONG!!! ;)
Author:  mgbv8 [ Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
You talking about this ???

http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2009/01/ ... world.html
Author:  Noswizard [ Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
No it's the IDIOTS on 200 mph and although I now have the ABSOLUTE PROOF that the bike was turbo'd, I'd still like to go belts and braces, by also proving it impossible with the limited power available NA but I need a bike specific site or formula to do that I believe, so any help locating that would be greatly appreciated.
Author:  billb [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
Not the bike your looking for again but the overall record afaik is 311mph which was achieved in 1.5miles on a turbo busa :yes:

http://uk.autoblog.com/2011/07/25/video-on-board-311mph-motorbike-speed-record/

Bill
Author:  Noswizard [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
Thanks Bill but that doesn't help with my current situation :cry: any ideas where I can get the info I want????
Author:  mgbv8 [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
some specs on top speed vs power??

http://www.tiptoptens.com/2011/01/31/to ... the-world/
Author:  billb [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
No idea which bike your trying to chase down details on sorry I was more adding some more background info to your topic title.

That 311mph busa has 1000hp apparently :shock:

Bill
Author:  Noswizard [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
billb wrote:
No idea which bike your trying to chase down details on sorry I was more adding some more background info to your topic title.
I have all the details I need about the bike in question but what I need now, is a formula to PROVE CONCLUSIVELY what I already 'know' and that is, that a NA BUSA engine could NOT make enough power, to run such a speed in a stockISH chassis/body.
My customer in Finland dyno'd his bike at 250 BHP NA and 350 BHP using 50% of the REVO, whilst the most powerful Busa known to man NA is only claiming to have 290 BHP and even that is MUCH MORE than was possible, when this 'CLAIMED' record was set approx. 5 years ago.

That 311mph busa has 1000hp apparently :shock:
I'd be AMAZED if that was true and as it's in a streamliner body I doubt that much would be needed.
Author:  katana [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
Noswizard wrote:
it's IMPOSSIBLE for ANY NA Busa to run as quick with under 300 HP, never mind 7 mph faster.


http://www.200mph.net/smf/index.php?topic=69984.0

And before you flame me - read what you said / wrote and read the piece. It's done at altitude and on salt, not a standing mile or stock body but answers your statement fair and square! Ok?
Author:  Brett928S2 [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
katana wrote:
Noswizard wrote:
it's IMPOSSIBLE for ANY NA Busa to run as quick with under 300 HP, never mind 7 mph faster.


http://www.200mph.net/smf/index.php?topic=69984.0

And before you flame me - read what you said / wrote and read the piece. It's done at altitude and on salt, not a standing mile or stock body but answers your statement fair and square! Ok?


Hi :)

Not much good giving a link to a site where noone who is not a member can log in....and "registration is disabled" for non members... :( :(

All the best Brett :)
Author:  katana [ Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
Brett928S2 wrote:
katana wrote:
Noswizard wrote:
it's IMPOSSIBLE for ANY NA Busa to run as quick with under 300 HP, never mind 7 mph faster.


http://www.200mph.net/smf/index.php?topic=69984.0

And before you flame me - read what you said / wrote and read the piece. It's done at altitude and on salt, not a standing mile or stock body but answers your statement fair and square! Ok?


Hi :)

Not much good giving a link to a site where noone who is not a member can log in....and "registration is disabled" for non members... :( :(

All the best Brett :)


I'll try and transpose......
Guppy goes 254.6 MPH ALL MOTOR
« on: October 6, 2010, 07:48:42 PM »
Last month my custom Hayabusa set a new N/A record at Bonneville. 252 two run record, 254.6 one way timed mile average, and a peak of 256 on GPS. Bonneville is at an altitude of 4200'. The bike was ridden by Mark DeLuca (shown). The 1.7 L engine was built and tuned by Steve Knecum.

Attachments:
Landspeed Larry 254.6.jpg
Landspeed Larry 254.6.jpg [ 37.78 KiB | Viewed 27952 times ]
Author:  Brett928S2 [ Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
Hi :)

Not exactly a daily driver lol and I didnt know you could get 1700 Busa engines...and not a standing start mile..... thats a rolling start mile....

All the best Brett :)
Author:  Noswizard [ Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
katana wrote:
Noswizard wrote:
it's IMPOSSIBLE for ANY NA Busa to run as quick with under 300 HP, never mind 7 mph faster.


http://www.200mph.net/smf/index.php?topic=69984.0

And before you flame me - read what you said / wrote and read the piece. It's done at altitude and on salt, not a standing mile or stock body but answers your statement fair and square! Ok?

It doesn't answer my question "FAIR & SQUARE" at all!!!!
You guys on 200 mph will TWIST or TAKE OUT OF CONTEXT, even the most obvious statement, to suit yourselves.
It's OBVIOUS that the ONLY figures that are RELEVANT when doing a FAIR comparison, are those that are LIKE FOR LIKE.

My original post on 200 mph CLEARLY STATED, that the performance figures fore my Finnish customer, were achieved over a STANDING MILE and I posted a picture of the bike, showing it was STOCK body.
However, rather than getting intelligent responses (in the main), I get some IDIOT suggesting that a NA Busa had run faster, then that was followed by posts from a bunch of sheep supporting his RIDICULOUS statement and claiming that it wasn't any kind of achievement for my customers bike.

ONLY AN IDIOT would think a NA STOCK body Busa could make enough power to run almost 240 MPH in a FLYING MILE NEVER MIND A STANDING MILE.

Sure the Guppy has achieved that and better but even a FOOL can see the difference in body styling and ONLY A FOOL would suggest, that its a FAIR comparison to my Finnish customers STOCK trim bikes performance. Surely even a FOOL knows that bikes run in different classes to establish various world records and that there isn't just ONE class for all?? :tard: :tard:

FYI the Guppy tail piece ALONE is worth approx. 25 MPH to the top speed and as Brett pointed out, this bikes results have been achieved over the FLYING MILE, which requires LESS power to reach a given speed.

I spoke in person to the guy responsible for building ALL the fastest Busa engine's in the USA (including the Guppy) and he claims, that 270 HP was the most he'd been able to squeeze out of the biggest cc Busa he'd ever built, until now and he's now claiming an increase to 290 HP and this is CRANKSHAFT NOT RWHP!!!!

That means that when Dave Owen ran the 'claimed' 239 MPH, it's EXTREMELY unlikely that NA Busa engines were even making the 270 HP this guy is claiming, as it was run a few years ago.

Thankfully, I've just had a response from the guy who calculates the power required, for my Finnish customers bike and he reports, that they need approx. 350 REAR WHEEL HP to achieve 239 MPH in a FLYING MILE & 370 RWHP to achieve 239 MPH in the STANDING MILE.

Since they MEASURED 350 RWHP (with WON REVO nitrous) on their dyno, just before they ran 232 MPH on the track, I'm confident that his calculations are correct.

So the evidence is this and I hope it's CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU NOW;

Dave Owen's SON confirmed the bike his Dad rode to 239 MPH was some other guys TURBO bike
The current TOP Busa tuner states he can't make more than 290 ENGINE HP NOW and until recently could only make 270, so Dave Owen would have had LESS than that when he made the 239 MPH run, had it been on his own NA Busa.
NOWHERE on the Internet is it OFFICIALLY claimed, that Dave Owen ran quicker than approx. 220 MPH on HIS NA Busa
HIS OWN SON stated that Dave had only managed approx. 221 MPH on his own NA bike
Dave Owen is accredited to holding the fastest STOCK bodied NA Busa and even that had been modified to some degree at approx. 220 MPH
Tiger Racing are accredited with the fastest nitrous assisted Busa run at approx. 226 MPH

The FACTS are as follows;
Dave Owen did NOT run 239 MPH on his NA STOCK body Busa - THAT WAS & STILL IS IMPOSSIBLE
My Finnish customer has run the worlds fastest speed for a nitrous assisted STOCK body Busa

Anyone who has previously put forward suggestions to the contrary or who has supported such a suggestion or failed to dispute it (which accounts for the vast majority of those who posted on the thread on 200 MPH forum) or who still refuses to accept THOSE ARE THE FACTS are UNMITIGATED IDIOTS!!!
Author:  Noswizard [ Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How much power required to reach 239 mph in a SS mile
For the record, my customer has recorded in excess of 380 RWHP and still has more work to do, so he's expecting to exceed 400 RWHP in time for the next top speed attempt and therefore already has enough power to exceed 240 mph.

For the record, all the figures he's provided are in 'average' race conditions and obviously would be affected by any changes from that base line.
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