NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Whenever I proclaim the advantages of my systems over ALL other makes of nitrous kits, I'm always met with a statement along these lines, usually from Americans;

"If your products are so good why don't more people/racers use them?" and I usually respond with a couple of the main reasons but some people are so dumb that they still won't accept them, so I thought I'd post a thread covering as many reasons as I could here, so that I could just post a link whenever I get that question again and then MAYBE the volume of reasons would convince them.

Now there's so many that it's difficult to know where to start and in what priority to list them but here we go;

1) Patriotism - Most Americans (unlike us shit Brits) are EXTREMELY PATRIOTIC and as a consequence would rather DIE than use anything that wasn't made in the good old USA, even if they had conclusive proof it was best in the world, right in front of their eyes. Now I WISH we had that kind of patriotism over here, then at least more Brits would be buying my products rather than buying US made kits.

2) Price - Until recently the UK to US exchange rate meant that my products were DOUBLE the price of most US made kits and even now since the exchange rate improved, some of my products are still higher than US made kits. As with any product, the majority of people buy the cheapest they can find, while only those with the brains and money to do otherwise, choose to buy a product regardless of price.

3) The sheep mentality - Most people judge what is right to buy based on what the majority of other people are happy with. BIG companies know this to be a fact and as a consequence they use marketing ploys to take advantage of it. For example, they will get popular celebrities to endorse their product, knowing that the huge fan base such people have will buy their product, because the leader of that flock has endorsed it. The same applies to US nitrous companies, they know that top racers have a HUGE fan base, so they give such racers FREE nitrous kits, in the knowledge that their fans will buy the same brand of kit in large quantities.

4) Perception - Most racers have the same sheep like mentality, so when they see the guy that's beat them is using brand Z nitrous kit and they can't run the same numbers, they assume that brand Z kit is the best to have and so join the flock.

5) Racing is about winning - When 'most' racers are winning or even close to winning, they are reluctant to even consider changing any component they use for fear of losing the winning combination. Only guys who are low on the race ladder will consider making a major change, because they have little to lose by doing so. The unfortunate problem with that is its usually a lack of money and knowledge, that are the reasons why a guy is not at the top of the ladder, so even if such a guy were to make the switch to my products, he's still unlikely to do exceptionally well, unless he improves his financial position and knowledge as well.

6) Backward steps - Most racers realise that making a major change to any car component usually results in some backward steps and a period of R&D, before improved results are achieved. Even low ranking racers find it difficult to justify the the time and expense of making that investment for LONG TERM improvements in their results, so I've no chance of persuading TOP racers to take that route.

7) Fear of the unknown - Most people have an innate fear of anything new and different, which means they are reluctant to even accept such a new and different product could work better than existing ones do, never mind be willing to buy and try them.

8) Race assistance - Most racers are not nitrous experts and choose to buy products from companies that can offer some track side support. While I've given and continue to give my UK customers such assistance and I've even spent a few weeks supporting my US Pro Mod customers track-side, it's IMPOSSIBLE that I could provide such assistance to US customers on a regular basis.

9) Customer awareness - While more and more Americans are becoming aware of my products, it's still a very small percentage of the market and even the majority of those that are aware of us are still sitting on the fence pending a result that will convince them that our products perform best.

10) Time - Even if we had a HUGE advertising and marketing budget, it would take many years to convince substantial numbers of people to choose our products over the established US companies.

11) Propaganda - EVERY US company has spent (and continues to spend) HUGE sums of money on propaganda to convince the US market that their products are best and it is an almost impossible task to reverse the effects of that.

12) Local supplier - Most people would rather make a major purchase from a local supplier and as we even have customers in the UK who would not buy our products because we are too far from them, there's no wonder that most potential US customers feel the same way.

There are more but I've run out of time for now but will be back with them ASAP but in the meantime, if anyone else can think of any others, please feel free to add them.

the sheep one i found was most eveident when i looked into nitrous , every one said same but it made no sence to me at all , yet i still did not hear why I should do it the same as the rest and when i asked i never got any tecnical reasons back and i did ask lol , best i got back was ive been in this racing for 20 years so dont question me

so i did a bit of digging and found out not so much money is to be made from just being a middle man for junk kits

and because you dont need anyone or a dyno to set a WON kit that i think is real probem in loss of income for those guys, ive seen and trev knows just how many people run his pulsiods

Marketing is the key IMO.

The issue here is that 99% of the teams have roots in the sportsman class, so a lot of the contacts and product utilization gets carried over.

As simple as it sounds, I think starting and maintaning a presence at PRI would be the most effective way forward within the US market. Ironically, this is probably the worst time in history to be doing this...

The issue here is that 99% of the teams have roots in the sportsman class, so a lot of the contacts and product utilization gets carried over.
Very good point and undoubtedly another reason why the situation is as it is.

As simple as it sounds, I think starting and maintaning a presence at PRI would be the most effective way forward within the US market. Ironically, this is probably the worst time in history to be doing this...
Very true on both counts - apparently attendance at the PRI this year, was something like 50% less than last year.

Another reason is;

Pier pressure – its obvious from numerous forum threads that when an American or even most “official” UK Drag racers mention an interest in my products, they are put under pier pressure from certain individuals to take the “normal” route and use US made products.
I even know of one instance where a customer had been using my system SUCCESSFULLY for a few years but because he was the only one at the Pod, who was not using a US kit he was shunned and made to feel stupid. Eventually due to that pressure he switched to a NOS kit and spent a year suffering the consequences. Eventually he switched back to our systems and has had to deal with the stigma that causes but at least he’s run quicker than he was able to do with the NOS kit.


Other points to consider;

1) Millions of people buy Ford cars and we all know they "WORK" but nobody would ever say they had the same high quality or performed as well as say a Ferrari and millions of people buy McDonald's burgers but only a fool would say that proves they make the best burgers and that they are more nutritional than a high quality burger and yet most people seem to think, that just because a brand of nitrous kit works and millions of people buy them, that makes them the best - UTTER RUBBISH!!!

2) It's because US nitrous technology is still stuck in the 1970s (just find me ONE difference between a 1970s solenoid and a 2008 solenoid), that turbo and blown cars are now dominating in many high end classes, despite being HEAVILY handicapped in many cases.

3) People claim that because US kits are used on top Drag cars it means they must be the best but if those kits were so good, they would not need to slow down blown cars by handicapping them to allow the nitrous cars to KEEP UP!!!
It's even getting so bad that in classes where blown, turbo and nitrous cars used to race against each other, they're now being split so nitrous cars ONLY are allowed to avoid them getting trashed every round.

Boy I wish that was true. But it isn't. (I'll end my comments there instead of getting on my soap box about the mess in the American economy, maybe in a different thread some time)

Generally, European products are perceived as "expensive but better" and Asian products are perceived as "cheap, for when cheap will suffice". Americans do feel that we have the world's best technology on huge engines (7 liter and up), and all related technology.

-BC

Hi Bob,

Whilst I'm sure there is a sector of Americans that are not extremely patriotic, I've found that those who buy US made cars usually fall in to the patriotic sector and even those Brits who buy US cars/engines, would rather be patriotic to America than the UK.

I like these.



What, like the Made in China Scat and Eagle cranks and rods?



What was it PT Barnum said about a fool and his money?



It's the best way to sell the most product whether that product is rubbish or not. Most of these companies are beholden to shareholders - investors who could care less for how good or bad a nitrous solenoid is. It's sad but it's also a fact. Nice guys finish last, (as do cranky old bastards with great nitrous gear!;))



If you want to be where others are, do what others do. Personally, I want to beat all those other blokes, not be where they are!

Trev, how many kits did you sell to germany?
i know two people.

and i only know a hand full of people knowing WON.
one of them directed me to you after my NX experiences

I may have a couple of bike customers there but other than that no more that I'm aware of.
Considering Peter Bossert went round Europe setting world records at every track and held the European Funny Bike record for a couple of years, using my systems, you'd have thought a few more people would have noticed.

The annoying thing about Europe is that companies inside the EU have to comply with their bloody stupid rules to be allowed to sell to our own community, yet they allow US companies to sell whatever they want without compliance - that's BLOODY STUPID, especially as the EU was supposed to be to protect its members from external unfair competition.

Another reason is that Drag racing has more than its fair share of the IDIOT element and that leads to malicious rumours that my products are at fault for failures, when the truth is that the IDIOTS can't understand the technicalities of my systems but manage to get better results from the SIMPLE IDIOT PROOF US kits.

There are also a number of people with vested interests to UNJUSTIFIABLY bad mouth my products, so they can sell the junk they import from the US.

There are also those that through ignorance (like those on the GFZ), won't accept that the principles behind my products are better than the rest and spend the majority of their pathetic lives, bad mouthing me on forums for their own childish entertainment. Unfortunately those with limited brain cells believe such rubbish and go on to propagate the rubbish elsewhere.

All in all pathetic examples of the stupidity of certain sectors of mankind.

Me i dont understand it at all im afraid oki i dont race in compertion but i did do some checking as Trev said for almost a year before i got my kit , not because i did not want Nitrous but more to do with the crap and miss information and i was skint lol

But one sure fact is Won Cars and bikes dont seam to blow up on street kits unlike the many many fek ups ya read with likes of Nos and NX , this was a key point with me lol and they do seam to last a long time on Gas

I just could not understand what i was being told by others about Won and reason not to buy since found out why , but as i checked it all out Won dont need any spare solonids rebuild kits ect , simple to fit , life time warenty , quality parts , easy to set up and test , and cost effective tuning mod and with some common sence applied it all seamed to make sence , now if i can almost double my NA power with no mods to engin other than Won imagin what i could do if i was smart and had a race preped engin

I was told 50 bhp max with a NOS kit for my bike many times by many people but ive run at 100 with WON kit and it happy as larry Trev says will run 150 and i agree

on most forums over here, like BMW-forums, if someone ask for N2O all the people say in short: "Stay away! you´ll blow your engine!"

but most (99%) of them never ever have used or seen a N2O kit!
that 1% bought a cheap kit, put it on, put in 100hp jets and blow the engine.

and due to our law we can´t use N20 on streets. so we have Turbo and Compressor tuning on street cars.

our drag racers are all in the "sheep mentality" section.
"do what the others do!"
i have the same mentality!

BUT! if you copy, be sure you copy from the best!

I've been mulling this one over since you posted,trying to find a diplomatic way to answer.
I would imagine you're mainly directing this at motorcycle racers,as you've mentioned various individuals,and 200mph in particular, in the past.I've been in and around drag racing for about 20yrs,with a distinct byas towards bikes,I've crewed and worked as an official.I've seen a lot of people-and reputations- come and go.

Now the fact that you've been around for longer than that,says a lot for your staying power.But with comments like this post It's amazing!

I know of racers that really-for whatever reason-do not like you and will never buy your products,no matter what you achieve.But it doesn't make sense to lump them all together and alienate a whole - and I'm sure large- market.

Your products are superb,..... let them do the talking

WHY DON'T MORE RACERS USE WON? probably because Trevor pissed them off

Haven't had any new reasons come to mind BUT I've just reviewed what we've dealt with already and rather than my products being doubted because we don't have more race customers, people should be AMAZED that we've sold any race systems at all, especially to Americans and even more AMAZINGLY to a US Pro Mod car.

Rather than start a new thread I thought I'd add this to the appropriate existing thread.

I've mentioned this before somewhere on the forum (but from what I can see not on this thread), that ANOTHER reason why more people (in particular American's) aren't using my systems, is because those that are doing so and doing well, KEEP IT A BLOODY SECRET so they can maintain an advantage over the people using US JUNK.

Well today I received an email that I thought I'd quote from as a perfect example to anyone who doubts it;

hey trevor **** here hope everything is going well over there sorry i never replied back to you i appreciate the advice and the great products my bikes are truly flying the big bike has been 7.60 twice with a 0.000 reaction time and 1.23 60 on one of them we grudge race this bike so please keep that between us the nitrous is so smooth you cant even tell its spraying this setup has been the absolute easiest to tune and very consistent i have more hp than before and less fuel being needed before we were out at 100 shot and now at 120 with your components we have tons left i am so wanting more i think i will still just order from you guys direct on the jets as it is a small world and trying to stay low key not everyday somebody calls needin 140-200 hp nos wizard jets cecil will remember me and we will be in valdosta very soon we will be racin some his guys after hours i am sure so i will be gettin my money gathered up soon for a jet order .ps those times above were on a street tire at 70 inches with a stock shock i am a believer in your setup so much so i dont want to tell anybody what i am using but i will order some stickers for the bikes on my next order .Its always a pleasure Trevor and thanks again.

This is just one of many but its the first time I've had it said in an email.

Why many dont use WON ... because its NOS we all looked at in the fast and the furious... when people hear nitrous they think blue bottle and NOS.. if they know more they think boom! lol

I BELIVE!

Anyone who has read the whole of this thread will have seen the numerous reasons for the title of the thread but as I encountered 3 more reasons (2 of which were unexpected), I thought I'd update this thread with them.

The expected one first;

1) People selling alternative products LYING about our systems, by making FALSE claims that our Pulsoids fail for example.

2) Customers who are doing well with my products LYING to their competition to put them off purchasing our products, as it would make it harder for them to win.

3) People with no apparent justification for doing so, making post that LIE not only about our products but everything else in it. See below.


Now here's a specific example of the last one, that ALMOST appeared on our Facebook page. To any of you who are not aware of it, I'm a newbie to Facebook, so I'm still learning how it works, which believe me is a hell of a task.

After JC pointed out some American company was making COPIES of our atomising fuel injector concept, I made a post exposing them on our Facebook page. It resulted in NUMEROUS posts and unbeknown to me at the time, amongst those posts that were visible, were a few that for some reason Facebook software considered potential spam and as a consequence they were hidden and just represented by 3 dots between visible posts.

Some time in to the thread, I became aware of how Facebook worked in this respect and discovered that by clicking on these 3 dots the 'spam' posts are made visible and you have the option to accept as a genuine post and make visible or leave hidden.

The following is one of the 'spam' posts from a guy called Brian Healey;

I would like to chime in. I have been using Nitrous for 40 years. I do LSRs at Bonneville, Black Rock and other venues. I switched to Pulsoids earlier this year and I regret it to this day. One one my pulsoids failed. The fuel pulsoid's little plastic adjuster melted and clogged. It leaned out the motor in a matter of micro seconds. When you are going 300+ miles an hour that is not a good thing. I tried calling your U.S distributor and could not get ahold of them for a week. I tried calling you and could not get through. I will never run one of your products again. I ran NX exclusively and never had any problems for years, before that I ran NOS. Your attitude leaves much to be desired. When you spend over $20,000 on a motor only to have it fail due to a $300 solenoid that is marketed as being perfect leaves alot of questions. Using plastic in a solenoid is not a good idea. The type of fuel that I run melted it. If I had known that yo use plastic in your solenoids I would not have used them. Your solenoids are sitting on my desk as a reminder. Dont beleive everything your read

Being an honest person myself, at first I accepted that this was a genuine person who had suffered an extremely unusual failure of our products but after looking at his Facebook page, a few things didn't add up;

1) First of all he claimed to have been using nitrous for 40 years and yet according to the details on his Facebook page, he's ONLY 45 years old!!!!

2) He then claimed to have been involved in LSR racing and yet there isn't a SINGLE mention of him being involved in ANY kind of motorsport, in fact there isn't much of anything on his page at all about anything.

3) I then did a Google search to see for his name to see if I could verify his claim in this respect but there was NO mention of his name at all.

4) I then had Janet check our records to see if he was on our customer records but unsurprisingly he wasn't.

5) Still wanting to be sure of the situation before exposing him as a fraud and a LIAR, I posted a message on his Facebook page, inviting him to provide me with full details of the problems he'd 'claimed' to have encountered with our Pulsoids – to date I’ve had NO reply and that was over 2 weeks ago and I’ve sent him 2 further messages since.

6) For someone who was eager to make a post ‘claiming’ our products were faulty, he seem irrationally reluctant to reply to my messages to him.

7) One final point that makes me wonder what this is all about, is that the guy has NO friends or any activity on his Facebook page.


Conclusion;
With all these unscrupulous factors added to the genuine reasons for our less than stellar ‘apparent’ volume of US customers, anyone who thinks we’re not out selling US companies due to lack of quality and performance, needs to think again.

Final point, ironic that this guy would end with a statement (in yellow) than particularly applied to his own post.

Brits too. How many people in the UK bought a Ford because they thought it was British? On the flip side can't you pull the wool over the yanks eyes somehow? I can't for the life of me remember what it was but I recall the look of utter disbelief on one American's face when he was told that the product that he'd assumed was "All American" was nothing of the sort. If for some companies "Made in the UK" can mean we buy the bits from China and screw them together in England, then can't you do the same in the US? Uncle Trevor's All American Yea-Haw Nitrous .com?
Too true. Have you seen how (excuse the pun) crap Andrex toilet paper actually is? Tesco's own brand may be superior in quality and cost less, but it's not the "market leader" and it doesn't have a puppy in the advert, so that's it, game over, it won't sell.
I'd say there has never been a better time. When I grew up a letter would take a week or more to get to the USA. Then I was amazed when I could email before a 1 hour lecture and get an answer from the USA straight after I came out. Now I can buy from a US supplier and chances are it will be delivered before a UK supplier could. What I'm getting at is media is making the world smaller. A video on youtube can be seen all around the world in an instant. Your book did a good job (in words and photos) of demonstrating your technical advantage. Some decent HD videos would bring that to the next generation. We're now used to looking "at the high-speed" on mythbusters, so now it could be WON's turn.

O.S.

The trouble with facebook is it apears to be a magnet for people to say anything they like and feel there is no consequences ,my view on facebook is abit like tatoos be different and dont do it...

Are going to throw in my 2 cents here. Before I switched to a Noswizard nitrous system on my car I had used American nitrous kits for years and I was on the edge of disaster many countless times.
After buying a brandnew 2008 FN2 Honda civic I thought why still taking the risk of possibly blowing up the engine one day with this cheap American nitrous stuff?
Yes, the Noswizards kits are expensive but at least I can sleep quietly at night because you get pure quality, reliability and super service from the Noswizards.

Paul.