NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Hi all,

Just bought myself a Pro Series 150 Wet kit for my R1 engined MNR VortX. I also bought a Minimax progressive controller and purge kit and am looking for a few pointers on its install!

I've got around 155bhp at the crank at the moment and am looking at around a 50 shot initially

Do you think a 75 shot would be possible progressively? Any experience with these motors?

I've put a few piccies below to show my plan! Any comments would be welcome!

Is it worth trying to get the fuel Venoms on the engine side of the carb butterflies? I'm pretty sure it's not going to be possible with the space that's in there... Any ideas?

The discharge tubes will feed directly into the trumpets inside the airbox (not pictured...). The install manual suggests this is the best place?

I'm a little worried about the lack of a window switch. Do I need one? (i.e. to stop spray below 3k and above 10k? Redline is 11k...).

Is a good start to go with 50:50 jets? For around 25bhp hit?

At what point do I need to worry about retarding the ignition? Around 75bhp?

Any help'd be great.

I'll pop some pictures up soon,

C.

Hi Trev,

Thanks for the quick reply!

I bought them off a chap based in Falmouth who said he'd bought them around 6 months ago from yourselves. He is apparently upgrading his kit and was selling this one on.

As for the vacuum take offs, there are two unused which I blocked off due to emissions kit that I've removed during the engine install. What's the plan?

I am happy to follow the instructions to a 'T' in regards to discharge tubes and carburettors. What is the main concern with this? Airbox backfires? Fuel and nitrous splatter on the butterflies?

I have a high flow rate pump to pump fuel from the rear tank to the inlet on the carbs. I am planning on teeing into this line.

Another quick question... Do many people put a 'spray' button in series with the WOT switch? Or do they normally rely on an arming switch and just the WOT?

Thanks,

Chris.

The two vacuum ports are unused and blocked off, so can be used for whatever application.

When you say 'throttle slides', are you referring to the butterfly directly controlled by the throttle pedal/twist grip? Or the needle slide? When you inject N2O in line with the needle does this cause the 'stall' you mention? i.e. it's imperative to offset the discharge tube in the horizontal plane to the intake runner?

I've got to check the flow rate of the pump but I have just double checked the pressure and I actually ended up using the standard R1 fuel pump which is only rated to around 3 psi... Is this too low?

I may end up having a WOT switch, arm and spray switch just to give me the greatest range of flexibility. DO most people run an arm and WOT switch only?

Thanks again,

Chris.

i run an arm and WOT switch... why would you want to inject nitrous when not at WOT?

I would have a WOT, arm and spray all in series, so I would have to be at WOT with the system armed and then I can choose whether to spray or not. I'm just a little worried that I drive everywhere using WOT a fair amount and don't always want to be spraying. I also don't want to be arming and disarming the nitrous continually.

On my system I have the WOT switch. This stops the system being used unless I am at WOT. Then I have another switch that allows the system to deliver any time WOT is reached when I am at the strip. With this switch off I have a push button for 'random' use (any time a quick fix is needed on the road)

I obviously have another arming and bottle heater switch but these are in the middle of the dash with indicators lights. The 'race' and 'pulse' switch are right next to the steering wheel in a perfect place to use like indicators and wipers.

Trev, if you have a look at his picture there are M6x1 allen bolts underneath the carb to head rubbers, you remove these to balance the carbs normally but they could be used for other means!.

Yes I spotted that screw but wanted to be sure they were the vac points and that they were available for nitrous use.

Thanks for the input guys.

I thought you meant vacuum ports in terms of external ports for things like brake servos and EGR valves, which is what the two blocked off ports are. As you say there are four carb balancing ports directly into the intake runners which might be useful injection points?

What would you do then Trev? I've got four poorly bent discharge tubes that I think are unusable, so will have to buy some more for my install, a purge kit with two venom injectors and four fuel venoms. Is the ideal to get two more nitrous venoms, not worry about the purge and then mount two venoms per cylinder post carb?

The nitrous venom is best to mount as centrally to the runner as possible and the fuel just protruding into the runner?

What would be the other options? New discharge tubes and fuel injected into the carb balancing points? What would be the ideal?

If I mounted two venoms per cylinder into the rubber trumpets pre carb is there anything to really look out for?

Thanks again,

Chris.

WON 2.5lb bottle...



WON Minimax and braided lines...



Fuel pulsoid, four venoms and a WOT micro...



Purge kit including 2 N2O Venoms and 2 N2O Pulsoids...



Four badly bent discharge tubes...



Overview of engine bay...



Side of airbox, Mikuni, carb rubber and carb balancing (vac) port...



Throttle slides...



Four vac ports visible under carbs...



Spare cylinder head, undoing vac port...



Inserting fuel Venom...



Venom inserted into port... (obviously the wrong way round...)



N2O into rubber?!...



N2O into trumpet?...



Discharge tubes close to slide as possible...



Sorry about all the pics! I'm just trying to work out what the best bet is...

Will the fuel Venom being in the vac port be too close to the inlet valves and too centered on the middle valve? Does this matter?

Is the fuel Venom at too oblique an angle (i.e. to close to parallel with the runner)?

How do I thread the Venoms into the vac port and seal the thread? Washer? PTFE tape?

Do I really need a purge in this application? Lines seem to be nice and short? More of a 'for show' thing?

What is the ideal position and type of N2O injection in this application? Ideally it sounds like drilling and tapping the runner next to the vac port and using another set of Venoms would be the best bet?

If I were to mount the Venoms in the trumpet instead, what would be the disadvantage over post carb drilled and tapped into the runner? Would it still work in this location?

Could I get away with buying some more discharge tubes/make some myself out of copper tubing of the correct diameter and mount them as close to the throttle slides as possible?

Thanks for any help or advice in advance!

Chris.

Thanks again Trev,

Made some progress today...

Tested all the components in the kit and they seem to be working as expected. I'm going to make sure I can get the Nitrous injectors into the carb rubbers somehow...

When I did a flow test on the fuel pump, it seemed to surge slightly based on when the fuel pump (@3 psi, as it's a carbed engine) is running. Is this normal or should I put a higher pressure fuel pump in (around 10psi?) and regulate down to 3psi for both the carb bowls and the fuel pulsoid? Similar to this... http://www.noswizard.com/index.php/nitr ... -pump.html and then this... http://www.noswizard.com/index.php/nitr ... lator.html

Would running a regulated fuel supply (@3psi) sort the slight surging on the output of the fuel pulsoid?

I'm a little unsure as to whether the bottle has a short dip tube (to be mounted valve downwards) or a longer one? Is there any easy way to tell what's in the cylinder?

When I open the valve when it's uppermost, white liquid flows from it but when it's downwards, only colourless gas is expelled. The bottle is currently at 600psi...



I am going to use the three D-blocks in series, with equal length nylon tubes, to distribute the fuel. Is it better to distribute the N2O with the same setup or is the distribution block okay for this? Obviously I'll not use the discharge tubes, but add equal length nylon tubes to each individual Venom.





The last quick one, the Minimax has a few extra connections (as pictured below...). I'm curious whether this is a standard WON loom? And if so is there a wiring diagram?



In the below image I'm taking the Orange as +12V via a 30A fuse and black as 0V. What do Red and Red/Black do?



Orange and Blue are Pulsoid drives?



White and Black are WOT?



What are the Red and Red/Black for? Purge input? Not sure how to connect the purge solenoid...?



Thanks again in advance,

Chris.

Tested all the components in the kit and they seem to be working as expected. I'm going to make sure I can get the Nitrous injectors into the carb rubbers somehow...
Glad to hear it but as they are almost new I wouldn't expect anything else, especially as we get 20 year old systems that are still in perfect working order.

When I did a flow test on the fuel pump, it seemed to surge slightly based on when the fuel pump (@3 psi, as it's a carbed engine) is running. Is this normal or should I put a higher pressure fuel pump in (around 10psi?) and regulate down to 3psi for both the carb bowls and the fuel pulsoid?
The pumps for bike carbs are TOTALLY UNSUITABLE for anything other than MODEST power levels. The best option is a fuel injection pump and regulator, as shown on this page;
http://www.noswizard.com/index.php/nitr ... p-622.html

http://www.noswizard.com/index.php/nitr ... -pump.html

http://www.noswizard.com/index.php/nitr ... lator.html

I'm a little unsure as to whether the bottle has a short dip tube (to be mounted valve downwards) or a longer one? Is there any easy way to tell what's in the cylinder?
When I open the valve when it's uppermost, white liquid flows from it but when it's downwards, only colourless gas is expelled. The bottle is currently at 600psi...
That indicates there’s a tube in it and it needs to be mounted with the valve uppermost.

I am going to use the three D-blocks in series, with equal length nylon tubes, to distribute the fuel.
Those are actually Y-Blocks and as they’ve had the mounting holes drilled out I’d be concerned that they may leak through those, so they need checking.

Is it better to distribute the N2O with the same setup or is the distribution block okay for this? Obviously I'll not use the discharge tubes, but add equal length nylon tubes to each individual Venom.
The Y-Blocks are best for flow but MUST be plumbed in a particular way;
http://www.noswizard.com/pdf/Distributi ... oblems.pdf

The last quick one, the Minimax has a few extra connections (as pictured below...). I'm curious whether this is a standard WON loom? And if so is there a wiring diagram?
In the below image I'm taking the Orange as +12V via a 30A fuse and black as 0V. What do Red and Red/Black do?
This is the link to the wiring instructions;
http://www.noswizard.com/pdf/Minimax_Manual.pdf [/quote]